Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 49016
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2025/04/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2008/1/25-2/2 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs, Finance/Investment] UID:49016 Activity:moderate
1/25   "The general process of suburbanization is, the richer you are, the more
       likely you move to the suburbs," says Julie Martin, a senior demographer
       for the Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service at the University of
       Virginia.
        \_ Why does JFK junior live in NYC?
           \_ He lives with the worms, now.
        \_ Obviously true in the DC area, obvioiusly false in most of the
           world.
           \_ Yes, because a motd anecdote is superior to a researcher at
              a university. If you look at the wealthiest areas in the US
              in terms of income they are almost all, if not all, suburbs.
              \_ No, the wealthiest areas in the US and world are in cities.
              \_ No, the wealthiest areas in the US and the world are in cities.
                 See Pac Heights, The Upper East Side, Kensington in London,
                 The First Addrosmont (sic?) in Paris, etc. In the Bay Area
                 The 7th Arrondissement in Paris, etc. In the Bay Area
                     \- dont you mean the 8e/triangle d'or. --psb
                 per capita income is as follows:
                 Marin - 44.9k
                 San Mateo - 36k
                 SF - 34.5k
                 CoCo - 30.6k
                 Alameda - 26.7k
                 \_ See, Marin is wealthier than SF.
                    \_ So is San Mateo. The data does not say what he
                       thinks it says.
                       \_ And Alameda county is really urban, not suburban and\
                          CoCo County is just an outlier. Right?
                          \_ What does that make SF besides 3rd choice?
                             \_ Does the evidence presented support or refute
                                the statement "The wealthier you are, the more
                                likely you are to live in the suburbs?" Hint:
                                what is the contrapostiive of that statement?
                                what is the contrapositive of that statement?
                                \_ There isn't enough evidence to refute
                                   anything without providing some more
                                   data like population figures. Are the
                                   numbers you gave medians or averages?
                                   What is the margin of error? Fact is
                                   the wealthiest communities in the nation
                                   are suburban, not urban. Even your
                                   stats show that.
                                   \_ It actually depends on what you mean
                                      by the word "communities" actually.
                                      Is a county synomymous with community?
                                   \_ It depends on what you mean by the
                                      word "communities." Is a county
                                      synomymous with community?
                                      \_ It can be and in most of the
                                         country it is. CA has some
                                         massive counties where it might
                                         not be true, but SF is not one of
                                         those.
           \_ More like, true to a certain extent based on economic migration
              patterns in cities like NYC and Detroit; tends to break down
              after a certain economic level and depends heavily on how
              attractive inner-city neighborhoods are in a given city.
        \_ http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/076903.html
           It is more complicated than that. The wealthy and the poor tend
           to both move to the suburbs, for differing reasons.
2025/04/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
4/3     

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Cache (8192 bytes)
www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/076903.html
Sprawl: A Compact History "After 70 years of suffering the slings and arrows of academic criticism, suburban life finally finds a compelling defender in Bruegmann. A professor of art history and urban planning at the University of IllinoisChicago, Bruegmann demonstrates that urban sprawl is a natural process as old as the world's oldest cities, wherein large metropolises reach a point of maturity and those with financial means escape the congestion and high prices of city life. What has changed over the past century, the author says, is that an increasing number of citizens have achieved the financial means to participate in what was once an exclusive luxury of the wealthy. Bruegmann acknowledges that the effects on cities are not always positive, but he also demonstrates that many of the criticisms of suburban sprawl--eg, that it is culturally deficient and environmentally noxious--are greatly exaggerated and ignore the very real benefits sprawl offers in terms of privacy, mobility and choice. Early Sprawl One of the most important facts about cities from the beginning of recorded history until the fairly recent past was the sharp distinction between urban and rural ways of life. Within the city wall of most early cities, a visitor would see a dense mass of buildings, congested streets, and a rich and highly dynamic urban life offering many choices, at least for those able to afford them. A few miles outside the walls, however, the same visitor might see nothing but croplands and rural villages. The pace of daily activities would be slower, the environment less quick to change, and social and political life completely different. In almost every era in urban history, however, there was a transitional zone between the two, a region just outside the city that housed activities and individuals that were still intimately connected with the social and economic life of the city but that couldn't be accommodated easily within the walls. This zone provided space for burial grounds, pottery works, or other industries that were either too space consuming or too noxious to be tolerated within the city itself. It also housed marginal social or political groups and families too poor to afford dwellings inside the walls. In a great many cities, however, this zone also supported activities of a very different sort. Here were the houses of affluent or powerful families who had the means to build and maintain working farms or villas or second houses where they could escape the congestion, noise, contagion, and social unrest that have characterized the center of large cities from the beginning of time until our own day. Sometimes these settlements were permanent, sometimes for seasonal or occasional use. Sometimes they were fairly compact, composed, for example, of small villas surrounded by gardens in a pattern we would today call suburban. In other cases they were very dispersed with imposing houses set on a large acreage, often with a conscious attempt to maintain a rural appearance. Although this pattern apparently characterized Babylon and Ur and many of the earliest large cities known to us, the best evidence we have comes from ancient Rome. At the beginning of the Christian era, this great city had an estimated population of about 1 million people piled up within city walls that enclosed a little more than six square miles. In other words it had a population of a city like Dallas today but in less than one-fiftieth of the space. This created densities of something like 150,000 per square mile. This kind of density, which would translate to more than two hundred people per acre, seems to have characterized most large, thriving cities up until the beginning of the twentieth century. It is hard for us today even to imagine the consequences of crowding of this order in cities that had, by today's standards, primitive water delivery, waste removal, and transportation services. In Rome, as in most other cities until quite recently, this crowding was even worse than the figures suggest because social and economic inequalities were much greater than they are today. A small group of wealthy Romans lived in splendor in spacious palaces that, together with nonresidential facilities, took up most of the space within the walls. This left relatively little acreage for the neighborhoods that housed the vast majority of families. In these neighborhoods apartment blocks were built so densely that they allowed little direct sunlight or ventilation into living quarters. Human wastes disgorged from the apartments into the streets contaminated the soil and water; a vast number of fires used for heating and industrial uses polluted the air. It is not surprising that periodic epidemics wiped out large segments of the urban population. These urban plagues continued in the Western world until well into the twentieth century, and they continue to this day in some large cities in the developing world. Despite the obvious problems, several factors made high densities in cities a necessary evil. One was the fact that most cities owed their existence to some specific geographical feature: a site along a trade route, a safe harbor, a good location for a bridge, a piece of ground that could be easily defended, a rapids that could be harnessed to provide water power. The cities that developed around these strategic points could not spread very far because of the limits of accessibility. For the wealthy, accessibility was usually not a problem because they had horses and carriages; This meant that until the widespread availability of inexpensive public transportation, which was a development of the late nineteenth century, most urban functions had to be located in close proximity to one another. Residential, commercial, and industrial facilities often mingled indiscriminately along the crowded streets with little consideration for the health or safety of the inhabitants. Crowding was reinforced by military considerations as well. Most large cities, at least until the nineteenth century, were walled for security reasons, and the crushing expense of building and maintaining the wall guaranteed that cities remained as compact as possible. They expanded only when the lack of space for essential urban activities became truly intolerable. Outside the walls of Rome was what citizens called suburbium, meaning what was literally below or outside the walls. 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Sometimes these suburban or exurban dwellings served only as weekend houses, but for those who could afford to do so, these weekend houses often became much more than that. Ancient, medieval and early modern literature is filled with stories of the elegant life of a privileged aristocracy living for large parts of the year in villas and hunting lodges at the periphery of large cities. Nor was the preference for living quarters outside the center restricted to the Western world. Exactly the same sentiments in favor of low-density living outside the city were voiced by the gentry in China at least as early as the Ming dynasty. High density, from the time of Babylon until recently, was the great urban evil, and many of the wealthiest or most powerful citizens found ways to escape it at least temporarily. It appears that the forces that work towar...