1/23    Need retirement savings advice:  if I had the foresight to move from
        market index funds into treasuries at DJIA 14K, and put them back into
        market index funds at DJIA 12K, and not touched the fucker again until
        14K, would that have been a feasible move?
        Yeah, I know, it's like saying, "If I could have bought puts on GOOG
        at 730 and sold them now when GOOG's at 530", but it's a slightly
        different question.
        \_ Trying to time the market is very difficult, but you can always
           try. Maybe you should start out doing with some percentage of
           your retirment fund (like 1/4) and see how you do before risking
           the whole thing.
           \_ Umm, maybe he should not be doing this with retirement fund
              money.
              \_ I don't see why not, unless he is really close to retirement.
                 If he screws up and loses some small part of it (1/2 of the
                 1/4 he played with) then he has to cut back on spending a bit
                 so he can save more, or expect to work a bit longer or
                 whatever. What is sacrosanct about retirement fund money?
                 Since your risk horizon is probably longer, it actually makes
                 since to push it a bit.
                 \_ You have a point, sort of. It's not a bad idea to do all
                    your most tax-inefficient stuff in a retirement account.
                    However, you can only put so much money in these tax
                    advantaged accounts, so I don't think it's the best place
                    to fuck up. Therefore I wouldn't suggest "experimenting"
                    in a retirement account.
        \_ I don't understand your question.
           \_ If all this is in an IRA or 401(k), are there typically fees for
              transferring out of $80K invested in a market index fund and
              into treasuries, and back after 9 months, and if so, what are the
              fees typically?
        \_ Beating the market is a zero sum game.  For every dollar invested in
           the stock market that gets a 1% better than average return, another
           dollar invested in the market underperforms the average return rate
           by 1%.  Just *trying* to beat the market will cost you in
           transaction fees for each attempt at something clever.  When you're
           right, they'll cut into your returns, and when you're wrong, they'll
           increase your losses even further.  On the other hand, *matching*
           the market's average return rate is trivially easy and inexpensive
           in management fees (use an index fund).  If you're convinced that
           you're psychic, try this on paper for a while before you gamble
           with your retirement money.
           \_ about what kind of fee can I expect for a $100K move out of an
              index fund and into a treasury fund (and vice versa) let's say
              at a Fidelity managed IRA?  thanks.
              \_ It depends on the brokerage, account type, the specific funds
                 involved, and sometimes the circumstances of the transaction.
                 If you've got a specific enough transaction in mind, call your
                 broker and ask.
                 \_ yeah, but do you, or does anyone on soda happen to know
                    off-hand the typical fee for the specifics I described?
                    \_ No.  I don't have an IRA with Fidelity, and am
                       unfamiliar with their fee structure.  If I were moving
                       $100k in or out of the exchange traded index funds I've
                       been using in my Schwab brokerage (non-ira) account,
                       it would cost me about $10.  Your mileage *will* vary.
                       \_ thanks!  just wanted a rough number.  this also tells
                          me that not many sodans know this number.
                          \_ We're not your web searching lap dogs, ass wipe.
                          \_ Let me paraphrase what I just said.  "Schwab
                             charges $10 for stock trades in institutional
                             accounts."  Do you still think I've given you
                             information relevant to your situation?
                          \_ Why not call your broker and ask? We don't
                             know what *your* fees are.
           \_ this is true in general, I agree -op
        \_ We are going to see SPX 750, possibly 500.  Get out of the market
           NOW.