Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 48840
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2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

2007/12/19-29 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:48840 Activity:kinda low
12/19   An inconvenient truth for SF
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/18/BA24U044B.DTL
        \_ I thought this was going to be about the high murder rate.
           "Between March 2004 and August 2005, a relatively small group of
           people - just 362 individuals - accounted for 3,869 ambulance
           trips to the hospital." Jeebus!
           \_ Yes, when Regan threw the mentally ill out on the street they
              clogged up the medical system.  Unfotunetly people refuse to
              actually treat the mentally insane and instead they tie up
              emergency services because crazy homeless people are generally
              a fucking mess and need assistance.  Think of it as yet another
              reason we need a reasonable health care system.
              \_ I think we just need to eliminate the mentally ill like
                 the Spartans used to. No need to have that in the gene
                 pool. It's a tough stance, sure, but those people are
                 never going to get well and they are probably miserable
                 being alive anyway.
        \_ Why is this inconvenient? It sounds like a good place for some
           improved public policy, though.
           \_ He's trying to link people who love al gore and his global
              warming movie with homeless street bums in SF.  a bit of a reach
           \_ At what point would you tell your emergency crews 'this person
              has had too many calls, leave them lying there in the street' ?
              \_ So I know doctors swear the Hippocratic Oath, do nurses or
                 paramedics take a similar oath?  If so, to tell emergency
                 crews to leave someone would put them in a pretty
                 unreasonable and untenable ethical position. -dans
              \_ I would probably never do that, but I think The City should
                 start enforcing some of its "drunk in public" laws and get
                 these guys locked up, sobered up and in rehab. -SF liberal
                 \_ My point being, you can't be telling your emergency
                    responders to ignore calls.  ever.  The best you can do is
                    find a way to punish those abusing the system.
                 \_ You can't rehab someone who doesn't want to be hab'd. (Or,
                    doesn't care enough to put in the effort.)
                    \_ No, but you can lock those people up. I say bring back
                       the psych hospitals. -SF (maybe not so) liberal
        \_ Why not just make "chronic ambulance abuse" a crime and eventually
           jail them? I dunno, is there a solution?
        \_ Huh, this explains a lot of what happened to be about 6mo ago.
           I got woken up at about 3am by some dude moaning in the park
           across the street.  When I finally figured out what it was, I
           thought about going back to sleep, but eventually called the
           non-emergency cop line instead.  They came and said, "Is that you
           Jesse?"  Then they radioed in an ambulance.  I kinda figured they
           just called the ambulance because they didn't want to have to haul
           his fat butt into a patrol car, and didn't want him puking in there
           anyway.  This was in Livermore.
2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

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www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/18/BA24U044B.DTL
Niels Tangherlini, a paramedic with the San Francisco Fir... Niels Tangherlini is willing to state the hard truths about San Francisco's street population. And he's doing it, even if it causes howls of protests from advocates for homeless people or from some city political leaders. For example, Tangherlini strongly believes some severely mentally ill street people need "long-term, regular care. And if they don't want to accept that, we may have to impinge on their civil rights." He also believes that, in some cases, just giving someone a room isn't the answer either. We get some of these guys into supportive housing and they can't handle it." And most of all, Tangherlini thinks that the current system of support, where a 911 call sends an ambulance rushing out to treat someone who is likely to be a "chronic inebriant," is an ongoing disaster. Some of those who call clearly need medical care, but many are using the ambulance and the Fire Department as a personal taxi to the emergency room. He says it is stressing the system, the care providers and the city's financial well-being. A paramedic with the Fire Department, Tangherlini went back to school for a degree in social work, then pitched the city on his idea that, instead of an ambulance and fire truck, "what a lot of these people need is a van with a paramedic and a social worker." Tangherlini got his van in 2004 and now works with thousands of people on the street, often with a social worker in the passenger seat next to him. He is pushing them into treatment programs, following up on people at risk, and - in what he thinks is his most worthwhile achievement - sometimes arriving at 911 calls in time to call off both the ambulance and fire rescue crew because he knows the callers well and can get them help without a trip to the overcrowded emergency room. A Chronicle story in 2005 praised Tangherlini's efforts and noted that between March 2004 and August 2005, a relatively small group of people - just 362 individuals - accounted for 3,869 ambulance trips to the hospital. The story estimated that at roughly $3,000 per pickup and visit to the ER, the cost to the city could be over $11 million. The bad news is, despite Tangherlini's undeniable good work, the system is still stretched to the breaking point. On a visit to the emergency room at San Francisco General Hospital last week, staff nurse Judith Chavez walked up, unsolicited, to praise Tangherlini and the work he is doing. But she then gestured around the crowded ER, where rolling beds with dozing patients lined the halls. Despite the efforts, "chronic inebriants" are still a huge problem. "I see the abuse" of the emergency medical services, said Chavez, who estimated that on some nights, 70 percent of the beds are filled with chronic drinkers who are repeat visitors. Spending a day with Tangherlini gives a sense of the scale of the problem. For example, during a nonstop day of calls, he visited a Sixth Street hotel where an extremely intoxicated occupant had already been placed in an ambulance. Tangherlini was familiar with the man, who lay on a stretcher in the back of the unit, awake but unresponsive. "You know that you are at risk of losing this housing," Tangherlini said, looking into the man's eyes. "He's been telling me it is February of 1967," the ambulance technician said. The man is a "frequent flier," the term used by public health officials all over the country for someone who routinely uses ambulance and ER services. Tangherlini says the man took 21 ambulance rides in the previous month and was just released from the hospital two days earlier. This is the population that will break your emergency system. There is no more inefficient way to detox someone than to do it in the hospital." In a perfect world, Tangherlini would like an expanded, well-funded, stand-alone detox center. A step in that direction is the Department of Public Heath's "sobering center" on Fell Street, which was established in 2003. Chronic inebriants who are not facing a life-threatening condition can be taken there instead of to the emergency room. Last week, he was working with the sort of client he calls "a death mission alcoholic." The man, only 30, had been sober, doing well, even talking about getting a job. He's lost his housing and is drinking again, and Shannon Smith, a nurse at the sobering center, said that on the day we saw him, he was on the verge of an alcohol-induced seizure. Tangherlini and Smith knew the man well, and had obviously built up a bond of trust. "They come in, they leave, and they come back in an ambulance," says Smith. What the program could really use is more paid staffers with Tangherlini's qualifications. Those who are out working the streets for a better San Francisco can't understand the bickering over policy. "We've got to stop making this a battle line between the advocates and the providers," Tangherlini said. "As paramedics, we are the ones working with these people. These days, Tangherlini says, he's averaging one death a week. CW Nevius' column usually appears Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday.