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| 5/25 |
| 2007/11/27-30 [Reference/Religion] UID:48699 Activity:moderate |
11/27 http://csua.org/u/k36 (NYTimes) More Muslim riots in Paris--80 police injured \_ "The violence was set off by the deaths of two teenagers on a motorbike who were killed in a crash with a police car Sunday night. The scene, with angry youths targeting the police mostly with firebombs, rocks and other projectiles, was reminiscent of three weeks of rioting in 2005." It's a youth riot, not a Muslim riot. Read deeper. \_ Are you fricking kidding? Everyone mentioned in the article is Muslim, the neighborhood is predominated by Muslims, and in France "youths" are mostly Muslim, too. \_ Are French Muslim citizens of working age rioting? Then this is a youth riot, not a Muslim riot. By calling it a Muslim riot, you're labelling it with an ethnic/religious tag that has nothing to do with why these kids are rioting. READ DEEPER. \_ The issues these kids are protesting and their resentment of the French government stem from their treatment as Muslims in France. Not ever single Muslim treatment as Muslims in France. Not every single Muslim in the country has to riot in order for it to be a Muslim riot. How many non-Muslim youths are rioting? Oh, none. \_ According to the news, black Africans are also rioting. Are they also Muslim? \_ Yes. \_ The kids are protesting two of their buddies getting killed by cops. It's not a Muslim issue. \_ This is like saying the Rodney King riots were not a race issue. They were just protesting someone getting beaten by the cops and race wasn't a factor, right? \_ ...? If RK had been a 16 year old kid and the rioters had all been teens and unemployed youths, would you have called it a race issue? \_ Yes, if they were all black and the white kids weren't rioting. \_ And they are using shotguns: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/28/europe/28france.php Can you imagine what would happen here if rioters starting using guns? |
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| csua.org/u/k36 -> www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/world/europe/28riot.html?ei=5087&em=&en=8a4093b18608dc84&ex=1196312400&pagewanted=print Police union officials warned that the violence was escalating into urban guerrilla warfare, with shotguns aimed at officers a rare sight in the last major outbreak of suburban unrest, in 2005. More than 80 have been injured so far four of them as a result of gunfire and the rage was still simmering Tuesday afternoon. Inside the city hall of Villiers-le-Bel, a group of visiting mayors appealed for calm while police officers dodged rocks outside. We are sitting targets, said Sophie Bar, a local police officer who stood guard outside. They were throwing rocks at us and it was impossible to see where they came from. The violence was set off by the deaths of two teenagers on a motorbike who were killed in a crash with a police car Sunday night. The scene, with angry youths targeting the police mostly with firebombs, rocks and other projectiles, was reminiscent of three weeks of rioting in 2005. But senior police officials warned that the violence was more intense this time. Things have changed since 2005, said Joachim Masanet, secretary general of the police wing of the UNSA trade union. When these kids aim their guns at police officers, they want to kill them. We are only on the second day since the accident, and already they are shooting guns at the police. Some young men stood by the charred timbers of the towns police station, laughing and surveying the damage. Cem, 18, of Turkish origin, declined to give his name because he feared police reprisals. But he and his friend Karim, of Algerian descent, said they both had participated in rioting over the past two days. Six of the officers hurt in the clashes Monday were in serious condition, according to Francis Debuire, a police union official. Four were wounded by gunfire, including one who lost an eye and another who suffered a shattered shoulder. The biggest risk, the police say, is that the violence will spread. In 2005, unrest cascaded through more than 300 towns, leaving 10,000 cars burned and 4,700 people arrested. As night fell in Villiers-le-Bel, the anxiety was evident. Strangers warned people to hide their cellphones because youths were snatching them on the street. People hurried to their homes, while some gathered in knots on street corners. Police helicopters circling public housing developments spotted stockpiles of rocks stacked along the roofs. Naim Masoud, 39, a teaching assistant in Villiers-le-Bel, said that, in her school, even 8-year-old children talked about racism and discrimination by the police. It will take a lot more than riot police to cure this neighborhood, she said. It is inexcusable what they are doing, but the seeds are deep. Some of the fiercest clashes Monday took place near a bakery where one of the dead, a 16-year-old known only as Larami because his identity has not been made public, was an apprentice. Habib Friaa, the owner of the bakery, said Larami had been highly regarded. He was stunned, he added, to learn Monday about his death. Its quite something to say goodbye to somebody on Saturday and learn two days later that he died. Were like a family here because were a small business, Mr Friaa said, noting that Larami was not a delinquent. He was somebody who was learning our profession and he was serious. Ariane Bernard contributed reporting from Villiers-le-Bel. |
| www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/28/europe/28france.php PARIS: Two years after France's immigrant suburbs exploded in rage, the rituals and acts of resentment have reappeared with an eerie sameness: roving gangs clashing with riot police forces, the government appealing for calm, residents complaining that they are ignored. And while the scale of the unrest of the past few days does not yet compare with the three-week convulsion in hundreds of suburbs and towns in 2005, a chilling new factor makes it, in some sense, more menacing. The onetime rock throwers and car burners have taken up hunting shotguns and turned them on the police. More than 100 officers have been wounded, several of them seriously, according to the police. Thirty were hit with buckshot and pellets from shotguns, and one of the wounded was hit with a type of bullet used to kill large game, Patrice Ribeiro, a police spokesman, said in a telephone interview. It is legal to own a shotgun in France -- as long as the owner has a license -- and police circles were swirling with rumors that the bands of youths were procuring more weapons. "This is a real guerrilla war," Ribeiro told RTL radio, warning that the police, who have struggled to avoid excessive force, will not be fired upon indefinitely without responding. War crimes case weighs on Poland The police have made more than 30 arrests but have been restrained in controlling the violence, using tear gas to disperse the bands of young people and firing paint balls to identify people for possible arrests later. The prefecture of the police in the Val d'Oise area, where most of the violence has occurred, said Tuesday night that there were no reported injuries among civilians that could be linked to the police. The events of the past three days, set off by the deaths of two teenagers whose minibike collided with a police vehicle on Sunday, make clear that the underlying causes of frustration and anger -- particularly among unemployed, undereducated youths, mostly the offspring of Arab and African immigrants -- remain the same. "We have heard promise after promise, but nothing has been done in the suburbs since the last riots, nothing," said Franois Pupponi, the Socialist mayor of Sarcelles, which has been struck by the violence, in an interview. You have people in terrible social circumstances, plus all the rage, plus all the hate, plus all the rumors, and all you need is one spark to set them on fire." On Tuesday, there were the first signs of the violence spreading beyond the Paris region when a dozen cars were set afire in the southern city of Toulouse. In the wake of the unrest in 2005, the government of then-President Jacques Chirac (with Nicolas Sarkozy, now the president, as the tough, law-and-order interior minister) announced measures to improve life in the suburbs, including extra money for housing, schools and neighborhood associations, as well as counseling and job training for unemployed youths. At that time, Sarkozy alienated large numbers of inhabitants in the troubled ethnic pockets of France, but afterward reverted to a low-key approach, which he has maintained ever since. During his presidential campaign, he stayed away from the troubled suburbs, aware that his presence could inflame public opinion against him. In his six months as president, he has largely focused on injecting new life into France's flaccid economy through creating jobs and lowering taxes and consumer prices. His most notable initiative in dealing with youth crime has been punitive: the passage of a law last July that required a minimum sentence for repeat offenders and in many cases allowed minors between 16 and 18 years old to be tried and sentenced as adults. Since September, Fadela Amara, his outspoken junior minister charged with drawing up a policy for the suburbs, has been holding town hall meetings throughout France in preparation for what is to be a "Marshall Plan" for the suburbs. Her proposals are scheduled to be made public in January. "We've been talking about a Marshall Plan for the suburbs since the early 1990s," said Adil Jazouli, a sociologist who focuses on the suburbs. After he returns from China on Wednesday morning, Sarkozy plans to visit a seriously wounded senior policeman at a hospital near the northern Paris suburb of Villiers-le-Bel. Read all 60 comments Join the Discussion Name, City/Country (required) E-Mail (required, will not be published) Submit Comment All comments are subject to approval before appearing. The boom is drowned out by the boys on motorbikes Juba, the capital of South Sudan and one of the fastest-growing towns on the continent, is a land of big dreams and broken -- or at least neglected -- promises. |