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| 11/23 |
| 2007/11/1-6 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Industry/Startup] UID:48515 Activity:high |
11/1 Intelligient writeup of Google's OpenSocial platform by Marc
Andreesen: http://blog.pmarca.com/2007/10/open-social-a-n.html
I got a chance to start working with OpenSocial before the public
release as part of my job at Slide, and it's been a pleasure to work
with. If you're looking for an interesting new platform to hack on,
I'd suggest giving OpenSocial a look. Incidentally, Slide is hiring.
Shoot me an email if you're interested in working for Slide. -dans
\_ You are advertising well: "come work with that motd idiot."
\_ Clearly, since you think I'm an idiot, you don't want to work
with me. Since you lack the courage or the common courtesy to
stand behind your opinion by signing your name I don't want to
work with you. Aww, the feeling is mutual. It's like we're
bonding! -dans
\_ I think you're an idiot, I don't want to work with you,
and I'll sign my name. -tom
\_ No offense tom but I'd rather work with dans. At least
there's a chance of getting IPO and getting laid.
\_ Don't all those hot UCB co-eds want to get laid?
\_ not to old grumpy sysadms.
\_ "hot UCB co-eds" is an oxymoron
\_ Come to Carnegie Mellon, where you won't find anyth\
ing if you don't speak Korean. -jeffwong
\_ Come to Carnegie Mellon, where you won't find
anything if you don't speak Korean. -jeffwong
\_ Exactly, there are no hot blondes.
\_ http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=733919
\_ I forgot about our pole vaulter, but I'll
admit some exceptions. That girl who posed
for Playboy was hot. A dozen hot girls
among 13K ugrad coeds doesn't cut it, though.
\_ Karen was and is hot. -dans
\_ HAve you snuck her into a bar yet?
\_ I'm pretty sure she's of age, and,
even if she wasn't, I don't see how
it would be my place to do that.
-dans
\_ Seriously, we should call a truce and have a beer one of
these days and see if we still think of each other so
poorly. -dans
\_ You don't come across better in person, imo. -- ilyas
\_ For once I agree with ilyas.
\_ Ouch!
\_ Ditto. -dans
\_ You come across worse in person.
\_ My friends disagree. -dans
\_ That's selection bias. -- ilyas
\_ P.S. The "motd idiot" is one of the principal authors of an
application that, according to current public estimates,
has over 12.5M users. The M is for millions, not the roman
\_ Update: 12.75M
numeral M. -dans
\_ I thought it was 12.5 Male users, which would be about
right.
\_ Everyone is hiring.
\_ Not everyone has anywhere near the reach of Slide:
http://www.quantcast.com/top-sites-1
I should further note, that just counting web site visitors
lowballs our numbers spectacularly.
-dans
\_ you: http://www.quantcast.com/slide.com/traffic
competitor: http://www.quantcast.com/rockyou.com/traffic
They have more page views, and more views per visit which
means they're "stickier" than slide. Mmmmm, fun with
\_ Actually we went to great pains to make
http://Slide.com *less* sticky. If you actually
understood what we do, then you'd
understand why that's a smart move. -dans
\_ I've never heard of a business model
where users going away is a good thing.
Seriously, best of luck to you and your
company. Done here.
\_ Slide makes embeddable content.
Create -> Embed -> Repeat. Note that
our embeddable content feeds people
back to the site. You're right, you
are done here since you clearly don't
understand what you're talking about.
-dans
statistics!
\_ You should re-read the data. Actually we have more page
views globally, double the uniques in the US and over
20M more uniques globally then they do. We have also
managed to soundly trounce them on every platform where we
have competed. You're right, statistics are fun! -dans
\_ we are SO impressed that you work for the 400,000th
Friendster clone, and that you think you're beating
the 399,999th Friendster clone. Woo. -tom
\_ Slide is not a social network. And hey, we're only
bigger than Digg. And Craigstlist. And http://cnn.com.
bigger than Digg. And Craigslist. And http://cnn.com.
But, yeah, you're right. It's probably just a
gimmick. -dans
gimmick. Update: we dipped below Craigslist again.
Bummer. -dans
\_ You had me going for a while until you said you
were bigger than Craigslist. I believe you are
now talking out of your ass.
\_ Believe what you like; the numbers don't lie.
-dans
\_ Bigger is a funny word. In what way are you
bigger than Craigslist, for example? They have
been making oodles of raw cash for years with a
tiny staff and nearly no hardware. They have a
proven business model. What's yours?
\_ Apply to work here, and, if we're interested,
we'll bring you in to sign an NDA and you can
find out. I mean, hey, we were only founded
by the former CTO of PayPal, and he clearly
\_ PayPal sucks
has no idea what he's doing. -dans
\_ PayPal is a very political company and
most of the original engineers became
disgruntled and started their own company
... it's called YouTube. Read some of
their employee's blogs on their former
employee, PayPal. In short it's
hardly impressive and mostly crap.
\_ URL? I would like to read these blogs.
\_ Yeah, YouTube is a PayPal cabal company.
It was funded by the Founder's Fund,
which is run by Peter Thiel, the founder
and former CEO of PayPal who recruited
Max to be the CTO of PayPal. Slide is
funded in part by the Founder's Fund.
Ditto for Yelp, and a bunch of other
PayPal cabal companies. You may not
find the engineering challenges that
PayPal solved to be impressive, but then
I suspect you don't really understand
what PayPal is at it's core. Yes,
PayPal does payment processing, but
that's not the interesting or
challenging part of the business.
Fundamentally, PayPal is a
risk-management company, and there are
some pretty cool problems to be solved
there. Also, I find it amusing that you
write off a company that had a 1.5B
liquidity event as crap. -dans
\_ I think Youtube guy is engaged to
the daughter of the Netscape/SGI
guy
\_ Their business model is to sell advertising
through their widgets which users of friendster
clones add to their profiles. I find the
thing plausible but questionable given
that they don't really own the space they are
playing in and the widgets are dispensable/
interchangeable. How valuable is having an
ad on that stuff and how do you measure it?
How much would users or the host sites put
up with? I'm not in that industry so, shrug.
\_ Oh, that's our business model. Thanks for
enlightening me. -dans
\_ Oh. So that's our business model. Thanks
for enlightening me. -dans
\_ You could have just looked at:
http://www.slide.com/advertise
But hey, glad I could help.
\_ It's cute how you see that and assume
to have complete knowledge of our
business model. -dans
\_ I don't understand why you have a
secret business model. Is it the
slave trade? Drugs? Small arms?
\_ So I used to believe that
running everything out in the
open was the smartest way to run
a company. Working at Slide has
made me reconsider that.
Sometimes there's value to be
had in playing things more close
to the vest. -dans
\_ So the advertising program is
just a sham? I don't assume to
have complete knowledge of it.
I don't really understand how
youtube or imageshack make $$$.
I run adblock so maybe I miss
things sometimes. Anyway, the
advertising is obviously part of
the model at least. Aren't all
these companies based on ads?
Isn't that why you care about
page views? I can't see anyone
paying to use these widgets.
Really though I was trolling
you for information.
\_ Of course the advertising is
part of it. -dans
\_ Here's the fun part you missed out on because you think
these numbers are either accurate or mean something:
this is just a statistics game. The numbers don't
mean anything. Here's something that does for those
looking to get some startup money: your company has
over 120 people on staff these days, right? Your
competitor has about 20, right? When/if each company
sells, someone hired at your company now will have a
much smaller option package than your competitor.
They can sell for half as much as yours (unlikely) and
still make individual employees more money in the
transaction. Like I said, fun with statistics, which
btw yours are wrong. You: global views: 542,034,086
Them: 635,964,222. And as I said, your stickiness is
way lower. Uniques are just people who signed up and
went away. But I guess you have to find something to
hang your hat on.
this is just a statistics game. The numbers don't mean
anything. Here's something that does for those looking
to get some startup money: your company has over 120
people on staff these days, right? Your competitor has
\_ That's an interesting number. You can look on our
website to see if we've publicized the actual
number. I can't disclose it under the terms of my
NDA. -dans
\_ Uhm whatever.
\_ Um, yeah. Stop making shit up. -dans
about 20, right? When/if each company sells, someone
hired at your company now will have a much smaller
option package than your competitor. They can sell for
\_ Funny I explained precisely this to my last friend I
recruited. Our grants are still big enough to be
worthwhile. Also, you have a bunch of facts wrong
regarding both Slide and our closest competitor.
-dans
\_ Ok, correct me. What are the facts? And if
yours are 'worthwhile' your smaller competitor's
should be 'more than merely worthwhile', yes?
\_ If you apply, you can sign an NDA and all
shall be revealed. -dans
only half as much as yours (unlikely) and still make
individual employees more money in the transaction.
Like I said, fun with statistics, which btw yours are
wrong. You: global views: 542,034,086 Them:
635,964,222. And as I said, your stickiness is way
lower. Uniques are just people who signed up and went
away. But I guess you have to find something to hang
your hat on.
\_ Actually those are the public numbers. I could also
point you to Alexa numbers which are, compared to
Quantcast, crap. Unfortunately, I can't point to
our internal numbers, as they are way more accurate,
alas, that's privileged information. -dans
\_ Ok, again, you're missing the core concept here.
I'll try again. Slowly. These numbers don't
mean anything. You could have 10x or 1000000x
those numbers. It would mean nothing. I'm
curious: were you working during the last dotcom
round in the 90s to 2001 or so? We believed all
sorts of crazy shit then, too.
\_ No, I think you're the one misssing the point,
which is that when enough people use a
company's products every day, you have to
acknowledge that maybe there's more to it than
just hype. For the record, I came out here in
'97. I dropped out of Berkeley in '99 to
start a company, and closed a $500K angel
round literally months before the bubble
burst. That company cratered, but it was a
valuable learning experience. -dans
\_ people used http://pets.com and webvan, too.
\_ How many people used them? I seriously
doubt either one ever got anywhere near
our size. Also, we don't have the
overhead of shipping 50 pound bags of
dog food or running a shipping fleet.
-dans |
| 11/23 |
|
| blog.pmarca.com/2007/10/open-social-a-n.html In a nutshell, Open Social is an open web API that can be supported by two kinds of developers: * "Containers" -- social networking systems like Ning, Orkut, LinkedIn, Hi5, and Friendster, and... Facebook platform, with two huge differences: * With the Facebook platform, only Facebook itself can be a "container" -- "apps" can only run within Facebook itself. In contrast, with Open Social, any social network can be an Open Social container and allow Open Social apps to run within it. In contrast, with Open Social, app developers can build to standard HTML and Javascript, and their apps can then run in any Open Social container. previously described the Facebook platform as "a dramatic leap forward for the Internet industry", you'll understand why I think Open Social is the next big leap forward! Open Social takes the Facebook platform concept and provides an open standard approach that can be used by the entire web. Open Social is an open way for everyone to do what Facebook has done... including Facebook itself, potentially -- more on that below. In other words, it's not a web services API -- rather, it's a way for external applications to "plug into" a host environment (or "container"). And then, in addition to literally showing up inside the pages of a container, the external app can make Javascript calls to retrieve all kinds of useful information from the container and perform all kinds of useful functions within the container, such as "give me a list of all of this user's friends" or "inject this event into this user's activity feed". concept of a plug-in API in such a way that neither host social networking environments (containers) nor external applications will ever have to invent another plug-in API, or have to choose between multiple competing proprietary plug-in APIs. If you know HTML and Javascript today, you will be able to immediately use Open Social to turn your web applications and web sites into Open Social apps. You can also use standard web development tools to build Open Social apps. This is obviously a much better way to operate than having to learn a proprietary marketup language or query language. Finally, although Open Social provides standard API calls to do many of the things you'll want to do as an Open Social app, nothing will prevent containers from implementing additional Javascript or web services APIs to provide additional functionality to developers. Open Social app developers can therefore choose to stay "onroad" and have their apps run in any Open Social container, or go "offroad" for one or more specific containers to do special things. Open Social standardizes common functionality but doesn't prohibit innovation. Many standards die an early death because they are too complicated and hard to implement. Open Social is what you want in a standard -- it's expansive enough to do useful things, but limited enough to be very easy to implement, both for containers and for apps. At this Thursday's launch event, you will see Open Social already running in a variety of containers, including Ning, Orkut, Hi5, and LinkedIn, and across a variety of apps, including iLike, Flixster, and Slide. APIs and mostly just had to map to them -- and the app developers in the launch created Open Social versions of their apps even more quickly. We also have live running examples, such as iLike, of the same app running in multiple containers -- Ning, Orkut, and Hi5 -- proving the interoperability that the Open Social specification promises. Now, all that said, Open Social is not quite ready to go live on Ning and the other partners. The API has to stabilize a bit, and containers have to finish testing and validating their implementations. But public production systems aren't far off -- Ning, for one, will go live as soon as we possibly can, probably just as soon as Google finalizes the API. What does this mean for today's Facebook app developers? Today's Facebook app developers just got very good news -- they will be able to take all of the work they did to build their Facebook apps and create Open Social versions of their apps very easily... and by so doing, get access to a huge new pool of users -- as many as 100 million users just via the initial Open Social partners, more than twice as many users as Facebook has today. As an app developer, there's no real reason to choose between Facebook and Open Social. You've already put in most of the effort -- creating a new set of front-end HTML and Javascript pages is almost trivial, and that's all you need to do to have your app "port" to Open Social and work within Open Social containers like Ning, Orkut, Hi5, and LinkedIn. What does this mean to web sites that aren't Facebook apps? If you have a web site today, and you want to turn your web site into an Open Social app, that's perhaps even easier than "porting" a Facebook app. Just take your current HTML and Javascript front-end pages and create a version of those pages that use the Open Social API. I think any web site going forward that wants maximum distribution across the largest number of users will have a single back-end, and then multiple sets of front-end pages: * One set of standard HTML and Javascript pages for consumption by normal web browser. The overwhelming good news here is that these pages can all be served and serviced by the same back end code -- and of course, 95%+ (and usually 99%+) of the effort involved in building any web app consists of building the back end. Having already built the back end, it's a very small amount of effort to create any of these front end pages. absolutely outstanding job kick-starting this whole approach with their proprietary Facebook platform. That plus their very large walled garden user base generated a rush of app development and adoption on Facebook that has performed very well for them over the last five months. Open Social -- by making this exact same kind of opportunity available to any other social network or container and every app developer and site on the web, in an open and compatible way -- will prevent Facebook from having any kind of long-term proprietary developer lock-in. Developers will easily write to both Facebook and Open Social, and have every reason to do so -- in fact, 100+ million reasons to do so. If you're Facebook, you'd probably prefer to have that proprietary lock-in, and so this announcement may not make you that happy. However, all is not bad for Facebook, because a big part of what's happening today is market expansion, and Open Social will definitely help fuel market expansion, which is in everyone's interest, including Facebook's. The more compelling social networking becomes, the more users who will discover and start using social networking, and the bigger the pie gets for everyone, including Facebook. Meanwhile, most software developers in the world are not yet building apps for social networks -- Facebook or otherwise. The more developers who build social networking apps -- Facebook or otherwise -- the more apps there will be on social networks, and the bigger the pie gets for everyone, including Facebook. It's hard to see Facebook losing in a world of a billion or more social network users, and hundreds of thousands or millions of social network apps. And it's also easy to see how a lot of other people -- containers, and app developers -- will win, as well. In fact, if rumors of a Facebook web-wide ad network are true, then this could be great for Facebook in another way -- such a Facebook-run ad network could be an outstanding ad network for all of these new Open Social web applications! Finally, note that Facebook can easily support Open Social any time they want. They probably won't do so right away, but in the long run, it will probably be a no-brainer for them, because then they will pick up whatever Open Social app developers who aren't also Facebook developers. Open Social is the kind of standard that web developers love, and can easily use. I think it will become a standard part of many developers' toolkits. It builds on HTML and Javascript, many people can support it, and it will be interoperable -- I know that because it already i... |
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| www.quantcast.com/slide.com/traffic Home * About Quantcast * Press * Privacy policy * Terms of Service * Glossary * Top Sites * Site Index * Quantify Your Site * We're hiring! This site uses DomainTools thumbnails. Hidden links: 27. |
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