Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 48482
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2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

2007/10/30-11/2 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:48482 Activity:nil
10/29   This is an old article from NY Times a couple days ago. I find it
        extremely interesting and a bit surprised no one mentioned about it.
        This is an article about how Kurdish extremist were fighting against
        IRAN (not Turkey) and it seems that this Kurdish extremist group,
        P.J.A.K has US' blessing to do so.
        http://csua.org/u/jv0
        I think US just find its way to pick a fight against Iran: continue
        to encourage PJAK to conduct raid against Iran, when Iran respond, we
        can say Iran attack Iraq and thus we need to go all out again Iran in
        self defense... this is getting better and better every day.
        \_ Of course Iran is messing around in Iraq.  I don't know why we are
           so surprised.  If China invaded Mexico, you can bet we would have
           all kinds of covert ops going on down there stirring shit up.
           \_ Who said anyone is surprised?  Pissed off that Iranians and
              their proxies are killing Americans?  Yes.  Surprised?  No.
              \_ Are you less pissed off that Syrian and Saudi proxies are
                 killing Americans? Also, your assertion that Iranians are
                 attacking Americans is utterly baseless.
           \_ Er, no, we'd have very overt ops going on down there. We really
              don't like having other world powers mucking about in our
              continent, at least not militarily.
              \_ I agree with you.  I just don't think it should be a shock
                 at all that Iran might be messing around in Iraq.  They
                 are next door to Iraq.  Iran is 90 percent Shiite.  Iraq
                 is 60 percent Shiite.  All of the holy shiite shrines are
                 in Iraq.
                 \_ Agreed. Also: no surprise that Turkey intends to pursue
                    PKK across the border, that Saudi Arabia is funding Sunni
                    groups, and that Syria is smuggling weapons in.
                    \_ All entirely predicatable before the first shot was
                       fired. Someone is going to fill the vacuum left by SH.
                       \_ All the more reason to believe that there will be a
                          kind of detente if the US steps out of Iraq. The
                          powers that be in the region will _not_ allow each
                          other to step in.
                          \_ Detente?  You base this on what?
                             \_ On the unenlightened self-interest of the
                                powers in the region. None of them want the
                                pie so much as they want the rest to stay out.
                 \_ So you think the entire region can be reduced to population
                    percentage by religion?  That's the only factor?
                    \_ I am not pp, but as Iran is the only Shi'ite power in
                       the region and is dominated by a Shi'ite theocracy, I'd
                       say this works in this context.
                       \_ No, that's too simple.  Iraq is much more heavily
                          tribal than religious.  Iran is dominated by a
                          theocracy but the people are not all walking lock
                          step with hand on Koran every day.  Far far far far
                          too simple.  Thinking like that is no better than
                          the 'theyll greet us with flowers' plan.
                          \_ I agree with you that Iran is not in lock-step:
                             it's arguable that the main theocracy and the
                             President have diametrically opposed goals, and
                             the populace, particularly the students, isn't
                             really happy with either of them at the moment.
                             However, I agree with pp that it's not surprising
                             that Iran is interested/involved in Iraq. The
                             theocratic elements are, it turns out, primarily
                             motivated by sympathy with (and the opportunity
                             to manipulate) the Shiite population in Iraq; the
                             intel folks don't want yet another Sunni nation
                             on their border; and the Pres. wants anything to
                             distract the people from the promises he hasn't
                             followed through on. I think I get what you're
                             saying, though: Shia population as a percentage
                             of Iraqi population is not the end-all reason
                             behind Iranian interest, no?
2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

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csua.org/u/jv0 -> query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804E1DC1039F930A15753C1A9619C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print
Deadly raids into Turkey by Kurdish militants holed up in northern Iraq are the focus of urgent diplomacy, with Turkey threatening invasion of Iraq and the United States begging for restraint while expressing solidarity with Turkish anger. Yet out of the public eye, a chillingly similar battle has been under way on the Iraqi border with Iran. Kurdish guerrillas ambush and kill Iranian forces and retreat to their hide-outs in Iraq. Tehran even says Washington aids the Iranian guerrillas, a charge the United States denies. True or not, that conflict, like the Turkish one, has explosive potential. Salih Shevger, an Iranian Kurdish guerrilla, was interviewed recently as he lay flat on a slab of rock atop a 10,000-foot mountain on the Iran-Iraq border, with binoculars pressed to his face as he kept watch on Iranian military outposts perched on peaks about four miles away. He and his comrades recounted how they ambushed an Iranian patrol between the bases a few days before, killing three soldiers and capturing another. AK, have been waging a deadly insurgency in Iran and they are an offshoot of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, known as the PKK, the Kurdish guerrillas who fight Turkey. Like the PKK, the Iranian Kurds control much of the craggy, boulder-strewn frontier and routinely ambush patrols on the other side. AK has had ''direct or indirect discussions'' with American officials. They would not divulge any details of the discussions or the level of the officials involved, but they noted that the group's leader, Rahman Haj-Ahmadi, visited Washington last summer. Biryar Gabar, one of 11 members of the group's leadership, said there had been ''normal dialogue'' with American officials, declining specifics. One of his bodyguards said officials of the group met with Americans in Kirkuk last year. Iranian officials have accused the United States of supplying the fighters and using them in a proxy war, though those assertions were denied by the American military. AK,'' said an American military spokesman in Baghdad, Cmdr. A senior American diplomat said that there had not been any official contacts with the group and that he was unaware of its having received any support from the United States. He also said that Mr Haj-Ahmadi, while in Washington, did not meet with administration officials. In fact, the two groups appear to a large extent to be one and the same, and share the same goal: fighting campaigns to win new autonomy and rights for Kurds in Iran and Turkey. They share leadership, logistics and allegiance to Abdullah Ocalan, the PKK leader imprisoned in Turkey. While most Kurds are Sunni Muslims, the guerrillas reject Islamic fundamentalism. They still espouse what they call ''scientific socialism'' and promote women's rights. 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Pictures of more than 100 dead fighters, including women, cover the interior walls of a building inside one cemetery. Up in the mountains, where they will stay for a year or more at a time, the fighters live spartan lives, subsisting on plain soups, tea, rice, beans, water and bread baked in makeshift ovens. They have a few tents and sleeping rolls, explaining that the only home they have is what they carry on their backs. The guerrillas are adept at hit-and-run tactics, and they thrive in the thin air almost two miles above sea level, climbing and hiking rapidly over the most challenging terrain. They send small teams into Iran armed with Kalashnikov rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, Russian-made sniper rifles and machine guns. Typically, they will attack a few soldiers at the fringe of a larger group, said Sadun Edesa, a 22-year-old Iranian Kurd who said he had been fighting up here for five years. He said the small attack was usually all it took to derail an Iranian operation aimed at rooting out guerrillas inside Iran. He was recently part of a four-man ambush team that sneaked into Iran and killed five Iranian soldiers, he said, before scampering back to camouflaged positions. The prisoner identified himself as Akbar Talibi, a member of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in Iran. His uniform bore Guard insignia, and he sat cross-legged on a thin carpet as six guerrillas stood or squatted nearby, one resting a Kalashnikov rifle on his thighs. The prisoner said that of his 70-man unit, 15 had been killed and 17 wounded since August. AK'' Iranian officials in Tehran did not respond to requests for comment about the guerrillas or the man the guerrillas identified as a captured soldier. A former member of the Iranian Parliament, Jalal Jalilizadeh, who is Kurdish, said the guerrilla group increased its attacks and began singling out Revolutionary Guard members and assassinating other officials on the Iranian side of the border a year ago. There are no official tallies of Iranian casualties, though Mr Jalilizadeh estimated the total at around 100 since last year. He also confirmed several recent attacks described by the guerrillas, including the downing of an Iranian helicopter near the border in September, which killed at least six. Mr Shevger said he led the team that destroyed the helicopter, bringing it down it with a fusillade from machine guns and sniper rifles. But the group still has more than enough fighters in this part of Iraq to be a law unto itself, controlling the few roads in the area with checkpoints. A guerrilla outpost on the crest of a ridge of mountains straddling the border suggests that it holds sway over much of the border, while Iranian soldiers are garrisoned several miles away. When the heavy shelling began in August, the Iranians also unleashed infantry attacks on guerrilla positions near this outpost but were beaten back, the guerrillas say. The outpost is concealed within a rock outcropping the size of a battle cruiser. Above it, along the ridge, guerrilla sentries peer through binoculars at troop movements several miles inside Iran, careful to keep their heads down, they say, because the Iranians direct artillery fire at any sign of the guerrillas. Nothing in their demeanor suggests that the guerrillas will soon abandon their fight. But their growing attacks inside Iran this year have put pressure on the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, the dominant political party in the eastern sector of the Kurdistan region of Iraq, which sees Iran as a crucial trading partner. 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