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| 5/24 |
| 2007/10/18-19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:48356 Activity:very high |
10/17 Watson on black people
http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3067222.ece
\_ Even if there is a genetic difference in intelligence
between races, so what if there is? Every *individual*
should still be afforded the same opportunity and not
face systematic discrimination. Further, even if it
is true that there is a measureable difference it doesn't
justify racism. It could easily turn out that Chinese
or Jews test out smarter than whites: does that give
them the right to be the "master race"?
\_ Yes. We already control most of the media -jewish
\_ The theory of evolution says the master race should proliferate
and the proponents of evolution will claim that it is
completely reversed right now (blacks/latinos have more
~6 kids, whites have ~1.6 kids). Thus, the proponents will
favor furthering evolution with racism.
~6 kids, whites have ~1.6 kids). Thus, proponents of
evolution will most likely favor evolution with racism.
\_ No, evolution says proliferation is a natural advantage.
Having more kids survive shows that you're the master race.
\_ Well then, I need to bow down to my INNNNDIAN friend
at 7-11 because apparently, he's the MASTER RACE.
\_ And Aryan to boot!
\_ No, we're not 'the master race'. That is a Nazi thing. But
the sooner you come to accept that we are God's Chosen People,
the happier you'll be.
\_ "master race" not "masturbator race"
\_ My brother converted from Catholicism to Judaism. We're
genetically Scandinavian. Which Chosen People is he?
\_ I hope a hot Jewish female with enormous breasts was
involved. Did he convert for marriage purposes?
\_ If he married a Jewish girl, his kids are Jewish. There
is no hope for him directly.
\_ You haven't answered the question.
\_ There's only one "God's Chosen People".
\_ Whoa! You're going go for the genetic purity of
the people of Yahweh argument? You're reducing the
number of God's Chosen People to a rough score,
my friend, and unless you've got a 3,000 year
pedigree, it doesn't include you.
\_ Uh no, see above, "If he married a Jewish
girl, his kids are Jewish". We're good to go
on the Chosen People thing.
\_ What's your Halachic source for this, Rabbi?
\_ The motd of course. What more do I need?
\_ HAHAHAHAHA.
\_ It's only nutty elitism that values IQ more than (say) being a
nice person, or having skill at a trade. Being a plumber often
pays better than an engineer/doctor/lawyer (and can't be
outsourced), yet vocational training has been systematically
eliminated in schools in favor of forcing every high school to be
college prep. Still, his comment addressing foreign policy to
black nations could be accurate or could be wrong.
\_ name the plumber that gets paid more than an engineer, doc,
or lawyer. and no, pro-bono lawyering doesn't count. the
carpenter i talked to yesterday was bitching about getting
$25/hr. he could have got $33/hr but the work wouldn't be
as consistent at another place.
\_ I had a plumber come out to my place last week and he
charges $80/hr for his services. He works for himself,
so yeah, he has overhead, but he probably keeps most
of that. O'Grady plumbing, they do good work:
http://www.ogradyplumbing.com
\_ He's not getting paid $80/hr x 8hr x 5days x 50weeks.
His yearly income is going to be lower than the 100k
engineer, the 200k doctor or the 400k lawyer. If he
makes 50k hes lucky. His benefit is being his own
boss, not the income. He's not pulling down 160k.
\_ I think you greatly underestimate what contractors
make. True, the journeyman isn't making that
much money. However, the foremen and the owners
make plenty of money. I know a lot of
tradespeople and they do very well. $160K is
very possible and guys with a lot of business
probably do better than that. I know a guy who
installs fire sprinklers. He's been doing it 8
years and he joined the union. He works for a
big company that installs fire systems in
commercial buildings. He makes $85K per year and
he doesn't even have a degree. In another so many
years he'll be well over $100K - about what an
engineer makes - and that's working for someone else.
He learned his vocation through 4 years in the
Navy. I think vocational training is much
neglected. Skilled tradespeople (especially in a
niche like wrought iron or cabinetry or whatever)
make a lot of money. The undocumented Mexican
guy is making $25/hour. A legal, clean-cut
caucasian or Asian guy makes twice that and also
has the Mexican guy work for him because he can
line up work for the other guy who doesn't even
speak English. If you own a house you'd know how
much you pay to have work done and it isn't cheap.
You'd also know that a lot of the better guys
turn work away because they have so much of it.
\_ If you are paying the undocumented Mexican
$25/hr, you are getting ripped off.
\_ Not really. He's probably getting $15 from
the guy who hired him and that guy is
then making $10 in profit/overhead. Do
something like get your hardwood floors
refinished or have some tile installed
(both take some skill and floors are hard
work). Do you think the guy is going to do it
for $8/hour? Not if he's any good he's not,
undocumented or not.
\_ So then you are paying $15 to the guy and
$10 to his boss. Yes, this makes sense.
But you can just hire the guy yourself,
if you speak even high school Spanish.
\_ Actually, I suspect he makes more than that,
since he has people working for him. But at
that point, he is really "running a small
business" not just "being a plumber."
\_ What do you think doctors, lawyers,
civil engineers, psychologists, architects,
optometrists, dentists, and accountants who are
making money are doing? They setup a small
business for themselves. With some luck and
hard work their 'company' makes it. When a
lawyer or doctor makes 'partner' what are
they doing? Contractors are the same. They
start out working for someone else, they
hone their craft, and they strike out on
their own - maybe with employees and maybe not.
A lot of them start with themselves and some
daylaborers they had good experiences with.
So it really is "just being a plumber" in
that sense - at least at first. There's not a
lot of money at first, but neither is there in
being a medical student and resident. I think the
trades are greatly unappreciated career choices.
Did you ever see "The Money Pit?" They
lampoon how much contractors make (supposedly a
lot) as the contractor drives a Corvette and asks
the attorney client over the phone before he
considers starting work:
"How much money do you make?"
"How much do *you* make?"
(we can't hear the contractor's reply)
"Really!"
I have an acquaintance who is a contractor
and makes a good living (enough to have a
house and 3 kids w/o his wife working). We
talked about this once and he told me:
"Roofers drive Jaguars".
\_ I think we are in agreement here.
\_ Lawyers hardly make $400k. I think the average
salary for a lawyer is something like $85k.
HLS yes, Florida State, n
HLS yes, Florida State, no.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_a_lawyer_earn
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm
\_ Watson is an ass and has been for decades. -tom
\_ Which is how tom responds to any conclusion he doesn't like.
\_ Doesn't change the fact that Watson's an ass and has been for
decades. -!tom
\_ Gotta agree with tom's fans here. Watson is a complete
ass. What's the name of that female who did a lot of the
original DNA work with Watson & Crick but didn't share
in the Nobel?
\_ Is that Watson's fault or the Nobel nominating/awarding
system?
\_ probably a little bit of everyone. there was
a movie on the subject i think, never saw it.
\_ Yep. Watson has been, and continues to be, a bad person.
\- RFRANKLIN was dead when they won the Nobel.
So the credit issue may be valid, but the
Nobel one is not. The Double Helix is a pretty
fast read. He comes across as a medicore pud.
(he goes on about how RFRANKLIN was a shabby dresser
and all kinds of crazy things). --psb
\_ BTW, note the difference between this and
tom's "he's and ass and always has been, take it
from me."
\_ Sure, the Nobel committee makes their own rules,
that's fine. But, Watson had the choice not too
screw over Franklin. He made the personal choice
to screw her over, and he's a bad person for that
and for several other poor choices in his life. |
| 5/24 |
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| news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3067222.ece Science & Tech Fury at DNA pioneer's theory: Africans are less intelligent than Westerners Celebrated scientist attacked for race comments: "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really" By Cahal Milmo Published: 17 October 2007 One of the world's most eminent scientists was embroiled in an extraordinary row last night after he claimed that black people were less intelligent than white people and the idea that "equal powers of reason" were shared across racial groups was a delusion. James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in the unravelling of DNA who now runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, drew widespread condemnation for comments he made ahead of his arrival in Britain today for a speaking tour at venues including the Science Museum in London. The 79-year-old geneticist reopened the explosive debate about race and science in a newspaper interview in which he said Western policies towards African countries were wrongly based on an assumption that black people were as clever as their white counterparts when "testing" suggested the contrary. He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade. The newly formed Equality and Human Rights Commission, successor to the Commission for Racial Equality, said it was studying Dr Watson's remarks " in full". Dr Watson told The Sunday Times that he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really". He said there was a natural desire that all human beings should be equal but "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true". His views are also reflected in a book published next week, in which he writes: "There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so." The furore echoes the controversy created in the 1990s by The Bell Curve, a book co-authored by the American political scientist Charles Murray, which suggested differences in IQ were genetic and discussed the implications of a racial divide in intelligence. The work was heavily criticised across the world, in particular by leading scientists who described it as a work of " scientific racism". Dr Watson arrives in Britain today for a speaking tour to publicise his latest book, Avoid Boring People: Lessons from a Life in Science. Among his first engagements is a speech to an audience at the Science Museum organised by the Dana Centre, which held a discussion last night on the history of scientific racism. Critics of Dr Watson said there should be a robust response to his views across the spheres of politics and science. Keith Vaz, the Labour chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, said: "It is sad to see a scientist of such achievement making such baseless, unscientific and extremely offensive comments. I am sure the scientific community will roundly reject what appear to be Dr Watson's personal prejudices. "These comments serve as a reminder of the attitudes which can still exists at the highest professional levels." The American scientist earned a place in the history of great scientific breakthroughs of the 20th century when he worked at the University of Cambridge in the 1950s and 1960s and formed part of the team which discovered the structure of DNA. He shared the 1962 Nobel Prize for medicine with his British colleague Francis Crick and New Zealand-born Maurice Wilkins. But despite serving for 50 years as a director of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory on Long Island, considered a world leader in research into cancer and genetics, Dr Watson has frequently courted controversy with some of his views on politics, sexuality and race. The respected journal Science wrote in 1990: "To many in the scientific community, Watson has long been something of a wild man, and his colleagues tend to hold their collective breath whenever he veers from the script." In 1997, he told a British newspaper that a woman should have the right to abort her unborn child if tests could determine it would be homosexual. He later insisted he was talking about a "hypothetical" choice which could never be applied. He has also suggested a link between skin colour and sex drive, positing the theory that black people have higher libidos, and argued in favour of genetic screening and engineering on the basis that " stupidity" could one day be cured. He has claimed that beauty could be genetically manufactured, saying: "People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. The Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory said yesterday that Dr Watson could not be contacted to comment on his remarks. Steven Rose, a professor of biological sciences at the Open University and a founder member of the Society for Social Responsibility in Science, said: " This is Watson at his most scandalous. He has said similar things about women before but I have never heard him get into this racist terrain. If he knew the literature in the subject he would know he was out of his depth scientifically, quite apart from socially and politically." Anti-racism campaigners called for Dr Watson's remarks to be looked at in the context of racial hatred laws. A spokesman for the 1990 Trust, a black human rights group, said: "It is astonishing that a man of such distinction should make comments that seem to perpetuate racism in this way. It amounts to fuelling bigotry and we would like it to be looked at for grounds of legal complaint." |
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| wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_a_lawyer_earn Login/Register Username Password Retype Password E-mail Address E-mail address is optional. It enables you to hear about questions by email, and helps you if you forget your password. recommend question Salary and Pay for Lawyers This varies quite a bit, of course, based on experience and specialty. For some general sense, here is some data from the US Department of Labor: In 2002, the median annual earnings of all lawyers was $90,290. The middle half of the occupation earned between $61,060 and $136,810. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of lawyers in 2002 are given in the following tabulation: * Management of companies and enterprises $131,970 * Federal government $98,790 * Legal services $93,970 * Local government $69,710 * State government $67,910 Median salaries of lawyers 6 months after graduation from law school in 2001 varied by type of work, as indicated here: All graduates: $60,000 Private practice: $90,000 Business/industry: $60,000 Judicial clerkship and government: $40,300 Academe: $40,000 Salaries of experienced attorneys vary widely according to the type, size, and location of their employer. Lawyers who own their own practices usually earn less than do those who are partners in law firms. Lawyers starting their own practice may need to work part time in other occupations to supplement their income until their practice is well established. Most salaried lawyers are provided health and life insurance, and contributions are made on their behalf to retirement plans. Lawyers who practice independently are covered only if they arrange and pay for such benefits themselves. Here is more input from FAQ Farmers: * I am a pre-law student, and I have done extensive amounts of research on the field of law. The salary amount, of course, varies with location you would like to practice at or what kind of law you are thinking of doing. But the average salary starting out (Example: your first year in a law firm) is estimated to be anywhere from $60,000-$70,000 per year. The more experienced you are does nothing but helps you; the average for a successful lawyer can be anywhere from $200,000 to sometimes 1 million plus. As I said before, it's all about where you practice and how much experience is "under your belt". A freshly graduated law school student will be lucky to get $30k a year, while a highly experienced and well known trial lawyer could make millions in a year. An attorney who caters to the wealthy can make a great deal of money while one who works for the ACLU is rather far down the economic ladder. Being a practicing attorney is much the same as being a doctor or educator one makes the decision as to how they wish to apply their knowledge and acts upon it in the way that reflects their personal ideology. The majority of attorneys do not make the enormous sums that the general public believes. Attorneys practicing family or general law have an average yearly salary of $65,000 to $72,000. Different kinds of lawyers earn different kinds of salaries. In Canada, the starting salary for a person with a law degree is around C$74,300 In Canada, the average salary for all lawyers is around C$99,200. Of course, lawyers don't only earn money by representing clients in court or drawing up legal documents. Lawyers can earn commission by referring their clients to other lawyers with an expertise in a certain area of the law. Depending on the reputation of the referred lawyer, commissions can go as high as C$50,000. The highest-paid 10 percent earned more than $145,600 a year. It also depends on how long they have been lawyers and on how many special things they have learned about the law. In general, lawyers are among the highest paid workers in the country. Answer That's a question for which there can be no specific answer as there are many variables. The type of field and practice, criminal, civil, prosecutor, defense, non profit organization, public, private practice or firm, geographical area and so forth. And of course experience usually applies in any type of employment or profession. Different types of legal employers genrally have different payscales. However, many factors affect saleries of attorneys in private practice. One factor is the size of the firm, small medium or large. That is not to say that attorneys at some small boutique firms don't make just as much, if not more, than lawyers at big firms. To get into a big firm, you can do it right out of(or during) law school but you generally need to come out of a school with a good reputation and/or have really good grades. A school with a lesser reputation has less of their students making it to big firms but those graduating at the top of their class and particiapting in journals, law review or moot court competintions can make it into a big firm. It is also possible to get in the back door of a big firm after a few years of practice. Experience and proven success in a specialized area may open the door. Some areas of the law simply deal with clients that have more money. Corporate and financial related cases often deal with deep pockets therefore pay well. Lawyers advising small businesses naturally will charge less than the corporate attorneys. Other areas may have drastic pay differences within themselves, such as criminal or family law(divorce) This is due to factors such as the attorney's reputation. Northeast and westcoast pay well as do cities versus rural areas. A senior person bills at a higher rate than a junior person, therefore, a senior person will be compensated more. An equity partner makes more than a non-equity partner which makes more than an associate. Lawyer's Earnings See the closely-related question "How much money does a lawyer earn?" In Boston (2007) many large firms are adopting the salary scales of their New York offices. Three of the larger firms have starting salaries for first year associates at $160,000 plus a year end bonus. Bonuses usually start out at fixed rates for the first few years (as long as you complete a minimum amount of billable hours) and then become more discretionary as you achieve seniority. Many other firms start at $125,000 - $145,000 plus bonus, so the figures that you see in the paragraphs above don't reflect what can be earned at large law firms. However, these firms are very competitive and difficult to get into. After remaining at a law firm for eight years or so you can make partner. Regular partners can make salaries around $500 - $800,000, but do not directly share in the company's profits. "Money" partners make similar salaries, but they also split up the firm's profits as their year end bonuses which are much larger than everyone else's bonuses. It is not unusual for lawyers at this level to make $1 - 4 million per year. Salary and Pay Rates > How much money does a lawyer earn? Redirects : About how much money do enterainment lawyers make? What's the average amount of money a Lawyer makes per year? What is the average amount of money a lawyer makes per year? |
| www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm DOL Seal - Link to DOL Home Page US Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics Photos representing the workforce - Digital Imagery copyright 2001 PhotoDisc, Inc. Sources of Additional Information Significant Points * Competition for job openings should be keen because of the large number of students graduating from law school each year. Back to Top The legal system affects nearly every aspect of our society, from buying a home to crossing the street. Lawyers form the backbone of this vital system, linking it to society in numerous ways. For that reason, they hold positions of great responsibility and are obligated to adhere to a strict code of ethics. Lawyers, also called attorneys, act as both advocates and advisors in our society. As advocates, they represent one of the parties in criminal and civil trials by presenting evidence and arguing in court to support their client. As advisors, lawyers counsel their clients concerning their legal rights and obligations and suggest particular courses of action in business and personal matters. Whether acting as an advocate or an advisor, all attorneys research the intent of laws and judicial decisions and apply the law to the specific circumstances faced by their client. The more detailed aspects of a lawyers job depend upon his or her field of specialization and position. Although all lawyers are licensed to represent parties in court, some appear in court more frequently than others. Trial lawyers, who specialize in trial work, must be able to think quickly and speak with ease and authority. In addition, familiarity with courtroom rules and strategy is particularly important in trial work. Still, trial lawyers spend the majority of their time outside the courtroom, conducting research, interviewing clients and witnesses, and handling other details in preparation for a trial. Lawyers may specialize in a number of areas, such as bankruptcy, probate, international, or elder law. Those specializing in environmental law, for example, may represent interest groups, waste disposal companies, or construction firms in their dealings with the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and other Federal and State agencies. These lawyers help clients prepare and file for licenses and applications for approval before certain activities may occur. In addition, they represent clients interests in administrative adjudications. Some lawyers specialize in the growing field of intellectual property, helping to protect clients claims to copyrights, artwork under contract, product designs, and computer programs. Still other lawyers advise insurance companies about the legality of insurance transactions, guiding the company in writing insurance policies to conform with the law and to protect the companies from unwarranted claims. When claims are filed against insurance companies, these attorneys review the claims and represent the companies in court. Most lawyers are in private practice, concentrating on criminal or civil law. In criminal law, lawyers represent individuals who have been charged with crimes and argue their cases in courts of law. Attorneys dealing with civil law assist clients with litigation, wills, trusts, contracts, mortgages, titles, and leases. Other lawyers handle only public-interest cases--civil or criminal--which may have an impact extending well beyond the individual client. Lawyers are sometimes employed full time by a single client. If the client is a corporation, the lawyer is known as house counsel and usually advises the company concerning legal issues related to its business activities. These issues might involve patents, government regulations, contracts with other companies, property interests, or collective bargaining agreements with unions. A significant number of attorneys are employed at the various levels of government. Lawyers who work for State attorneys general, prosecutors, public defenders, and courts play a key role in the criminal justice system. At the Federal level, attorneys investigate cases for the US Department of Justice and other agencies. Government lawyers also help develop programs, draft and interpret laws and legislation, establish enforcement procedures, and argue civil and criminal cases on behalf of the government. Other lawyers work for legal aid societies--private, nonprofit organizations established to serve disadvantaged people. These lawyers generally handle civil, rather than criminal, cases. A relatively small number of trained attorneys work in law schools. Most are faculty members who specialize in one or more subjects; Others work full time in nonacademic settings and teach part time. Although all lawyers continue to use law libraries to prepare cases, some supplement conventional printed sources with computer sources, such as the Internet and legal databases. Software is used to search this legal literature automatically and to identify legal texts relevant to a specific case. In litigation involving many supporting documents, lawyers may use computers to organize and index material. Lawyers also utilize electronic filing, videoconferencing, and voice-recognition technology to share information more effectively with other parties involved in a case. Back to Top Lawyers do most of their work in offices, law libraries, and courtrooms. They sometimes meet in clients homes or places of business and, when necessary, in hospitals or prisons. They may travel to attend meetings, gather evidence, and appear before courts, legislative bodies, and other authorities. Salaried lawyers usually have structured work schedules. Lawyers who are in private practice may work irregular hours while conducting research, conferring with clients, or preparing briefs during nonoffice hours. Lawyers often work long hours, and of those who regularly work full time, about half work 50 hours or more per week. They may face particularly heavy pressure when a case is being tried. Preparation for court includes keeping abreast of the latest laws and judicial decisions. Although legal work generally is not seasonal, the work of tax lawyers and other specialists may be an exception. Because lawyers in private practice often can determine their own workload and the point at which they will retire, many stay in practice well beyond the usual retirement age. Back to Top To practice law in the courts of any State or other jurisdiction, a person must be licensed, or admitted to its bar, under rules established by the jurisdictions highest court. All States require that applicants for admission to the bar pass a written bar examination; most States also require applicants to pass a separate written ethics examination. Lawyers who have been admitted to the bar in one State occasionally may be admitted to the bar in another without taking an examination if they meet the latter jurisdictions standards of good moral character and a specified period of legal experience. In most cases, however, lawyers must pass the bar examination in each State in which they plan to practice. Federal courts and agencies set their own qualifications for those practicing before or in them. To qualify for the bar examination in most States, an applicant usually must earn a college degree and graduate from a law school accredited by the American Bar Association (ABA) or the proper State authorities. ABA accreditation signifies that the law school--particularly its library and faculty--meets certain standards developed to promote quality legal education. With certain exceptions, graduates of schools not approved by the ABA are restricted to taking the bar examination and practicing in the State or other jurisdiction in which the school is located; In 2005, seven States--California, Maine, New York, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming--accepted the study of law in a law office as qualification for taking the bar examination; three jurisdictions--California, the District of Columbia, and New Mexico--now accept the study of law by correspondence. Several States require registration and approval of students by the State Board of Law Examiners, either before the students enter law school or during the... |