Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 48246
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2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/25    

2007/10/5-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48246 Activity:low 61%like:48252
10/4    It all depends on what the meaning of "torture" is:
        http://www.csua.org/u/jnr
        \_ Even the Red Cross calls it torture: http://www.csua.org/u/jnw
        \_ Even the Red Cross calls it torture:
           http://www.csua.org/u/jnw
2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/25    

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2012/12/18-2013/1/24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:54559 Activity:nil
12/18   Bush kills. Bushmaster kills.
        \_ Sandy Huricane kills. Sandy Hook kills.
           \_ bitch
	...
2011/5/1-7/30 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:54102 Activity:nil
5/1     Osama bin Ladin is dead.
        \_ So is the CSUA.
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2010/11/8-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:53998 Activity:nil
11/8    Have you read how Bush says his pro-life stance was influenced
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2010/11/2-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:54001 Activity:nil
11/2    California Uber Alles is such a great song
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2010/5/26-6/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:53845 Activity:nil
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        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100526/ap_on_re_as/as_clinton_south_korea
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2010/4/28-5/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:53808 Activity:nil
4/28    Laura Bush ran a stop sign and killed someone in 1963:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/books/28laura.html?no_interstitial
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2010/2/21-3/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:53717 Activity:nil
2/18    If not 0 then 1 - wasn't that the basis of the logic of the bush
        administration on torture?  If we do it, it's legal, and since
        torture is illegal, therefore we don't torture?
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2009/12/25-2010/1/19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:53603 Activity:nil
12/24   Why San Francisco and union and government suck:
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	...
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www.csua.org/u/jnr -> news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071005/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_terrorism_31
AP Bush says US 'does not torture' By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer Fri Oct 5, 1:53 PM ET WASHINGTON - President Bush defended his administration's methods of detaining and questioning terrorism suspects on Friday, saying they are both successful and lawful. "When we find somebody who may have information regarding a potential attack on America, you bet we're going to detain them, and you bet we're going to question them," he said during a hastily called appearance in the Oval Office. "The American people expect us to find out information, actionable intelligence so we can help protect them. Bush volunteered his thoughts on a report on two secret memos in 2005 that authorized extreme interrogation tactics against terror suspects. "This government does not torture people," the president said. The two Justice Department legal opinions from 2005 were disclosed in Thursday's editions of The New York Times, which reported that the first of the opinions authorized the use of painful methods, such as head slaps, freezing temperatures and simulated drownings known as waterboarding, in combination. That secret opinion came months after a December 2004 opinion in which the Justice Department publicly declared torture "abhorrent" and the administration seemed to back away from claiming authority for such practices, and after the withdrawal of a 2002 classified Justice opinion that had allowed certain aggressive interrogation practices so long as they stopped short of producing pain equivalent to experiencing organ failure or death. The second Justice opinion was issued later in 2005, just as Congress was working on an anti-torture bill. The opinion declared that none of the CIA's interrogation practices would violate provisions in the legislation banning "cruel, inhuman and degrading" treatment of detainees, The Times said, citing interviews with unnamed current and former officials. Though both memos remain in effect, the White House insisted they represented no change from the 2004 policy. "We stick to US law and international obligations," Bush said, without taking questions after a brief picture-taking session. Speaking emphatically, the president noted that "highly trained professionals" conduct any questioning. "And by the way," he said, "we have gotten information from these high-value detainees that have helped protect you." "The American people expect their government to take action to protect them from further attack," Bush said. He also said that the techniques used by the United States "have been fully disclosed to appropriate members of the United States Congress" -- an indirect slap at the torrent of criticism that has flowed from the Democratic-controlled Congress since the memos' disclosure. White House press secretary Dana Perino said those briefed on Capitol Hill "are satisfied that the policy of the United States and the practices do not constitute torture." She refused to define, however, what would be considered torture, or off-limits, in interrogations. "I just fundamentally disagree that that would be a good thing for national security," she said. "I think the American people recognize that there are needs that the federal government has to keep certain information private in order to help their national security. But House and Senate Democrats disagree that there is sufficient clarity on the matter, and are demanding to see the memos. "Why should the public have confidence that the program is either legal or in the best interests of the United States?" Another White House spokesman, meanwhile, criticized the leak of such information to the news media and questioned the motivations of those who do so. "I've had the awful responsibility to have to work with The New York Times and other news organizations on stories that involve the release of classified information. And I can tell you that every time I've dealt with any of these stories, I have felt that we have chipped away at the safety and security of America with the publication of this kind of information." The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
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www.csua.org/u/jnw -> news.yahoo.com/s/time/20071005/us_time/thedangerofbushstorturedstance
TIMEcom The Danger of Bush's Torture Stance By MASSIMO CALABRESI / WASHINGTON Fri Oct 5, 8:30 AM ET Every time the Bush administration is accused of torture the response from the White House is immediate and unequivocal. When the New York Times reported on its front page Thursday that the Justice Department had issued a secret legal opinion in 2005 approving a combination of particularly tough interrogation tactics, White House spokesperson Dana Perino said, "The bottom line is that we do not use torture." When Congress and the White House battled over detainee rights in 2006, Vice President Dick Cheney argued that techniques like simulated drowning didn't amount to torture. And last August, after the New Yorker reported the latest in a string of private memos sent to the US government by the International Committee for the Red Cross (ICRC) asserting that US interrogation techniques were "tantamount to torture", President Bush said curtly, "We don't torture." Click Here The Administration says its firm, absolutist assertions are designed to protect US troops in case they are captured: by insisting the US doesn't torture, the hope is others will feel compelled to refrain from doing so. But in practice, the administration's declarations have exactly the opposite effect. It's not just that Washington has very little credibility on the issue, given all the evidence linking the US to torture that has surfaced in recent years, including the opinion of the international body charged with observing detainee treatment. More importantly, by continuing to battle with the ICRC and other international organizations over the definition of torture, the Bush administration is undermining those groups and diminishing their chances of protecting captured US troops in the future. To be fair, determining what constitutes torture is harder than you might think. The UN convention on torture, to which the US is a signatory, says it is the infliction of severe mental or physical pain to obtain information. The administration refuses to confirm specific interrogation techniques because it says opponents can train against them if they know what to expect. Extensive reporting, however, has shown that the US has used techniques including raising and lowering temperatures in detainees' cells, withholding food, isolation, sleep deprivation with light or noise, forcing detainees into stress positions, head-slapping and water-boarding or simulated drowning. Critics like Human Rights First, Human Rights Watch and the Council of Europe, among others, say that some of these techniques - individually or in combination - can amount to torture. The organization whose definition of torture matters more than any other, however, is the International Committee for the Red Cross. Under the Geneva Conventions, the ICRC is given the unique role of inspecting detention facilities and confronting captors who abuse detainees. Last year, the ICRC inspected some 2,200 places of detention that held an estimated 450,000 detainees. In order to get access to some of the worst dungeons in the world, the ICRC maintains a near absolute policy of not disclosing their findings. Their ability to pressure and sway abusive captors rests on the moral authority they have developed over more than 140 years as the undisputed arbiter of appropriate treatment of prisoners. However, the Red Cross' findings on US detainee treatment have leaked repeatedly, presumably from opponents of the administration's interrogation techniques who had access to them. In those reports, the ICRC has consistently and repeatedly asserted that some US techniques amount to torture. ICRC spokesman Florian Westphal declined to comment on the reports but said, "The dialogue between the ICRC and the US on all matters of detention has always been very vigorous. Where we felt that there were things that needed to be addressed, we did so." Every time Bush asserts that the US does not torture, he is not just undermining his own credibility, he's diminishing the Red Cross too. "It's a downward spiral," says Elisa Massimino, Washington Director of Human Rights First. prisoners in, say, Egypt, the Egyptians will say 'What are you going to do? Worse, if a dictator in some god-forsaken part of the world captures an American soldier, the US may protest. But it is the Red Cross' assertions of a violation that will be the immediate point of pressure on the captors. "What it virtually guaranteed is that dictatorships will cite the US government's own arguments to defend themselves and that will make it harder for the ICRC and everyone else to condemn and shame those governments," says Tom Malinowski, a spokesman for Human Rights Watch. The Bush administration does not recognize that it's not just American credibility on the line. Because bolstering the authority of the Red Cross is in the long-term interest of the America and its troops, the US needs to get a clean bill of health from the ICRC on detainee treatment and make sure everyone knows it. Until then, every assertion by Bush or his aides that the US doesn't torture will continue to undermine the organization best positioned to protect captured US troops.