9/28    Remember, Thugs on Wheels today!  Be sure to be armed if you're driving
        in SF.
        \_ Ride bike!
        \_ if you are driving, you already are armed with a perfectly effective
           weapon.
           \_ So if it is acceptable for a bike rider to smash my windows and
              break my car in other ways, is it ok for me to get out of the
              car and as a pedestrian, kick in their spokes and break their
              handlebars?  As a pedestrian I'm far more green than any bike
              rider.  Just curious.  ;-)
              \_ The first is not acceptable. It follows, then, that the second
                 is also not acceptable.
                 \_ The last time it came up on the motd all sorts of people
                    defended smashing a minivan.  You think the smashers and
                    the motd posters were wrong?
                    \_ The last time it came up, all sorts of people pointed
                       out that the Matier+Ross version of the story made
                       no sense, and that what obviously happened is that
                       the driver drove into a group of bicyclists and hit
                       one and they retaliated.  That's not the same as
                       saying it's OK to smash a minivan.  -tom
                       \_ Where "all sorts of people" = tom
                       \_ Assuming your version is correct: do you think it
                          was OK for the bikers to retaliate (your word) and
                          smash the minivan?
                          \_ I think as long as there is still the threat of
                             dangerous and violent behavior on the part of
                             the driver, the victims are justified in
                             fighting back.
                             fighting back.   -tom
                             \_ *laugh* Thanks.  I've had a long day but you've
                                just brought some unintended humor to it.  I'm
                                sure that soccer mom came into the city with
                                killin' on her mind and blood on the wheels!
                                Yeehaww, *squick!* another biker down, Paw!
           \_ Yeah, that's what the Thugs say.
              \_ You didn't get breast fed enough, right?
           \_ Perhaps, but it's not terribly selective.  If someone is smashing
              in your windshield, it'd be nice to target him, rather than
              everyone in front of you.
              \_ You got beat up a lot in high school and still feel the
                 need to prove to the world how hard you are, right?
                 \_ Nope.
                 \_ Huh?
              \_ I would think that if they were smashing in your windshield,
                 it was because you had targeted them and hit a little too hard.
                 \_ If you hit them with a car they're not getting back up so
                    easily.
                    \_ one of the points of Critical Mass is that there's more
                       than one of them.
                       \_ that is why bumpers are wide.  squish.
        \_ If you plan on coming to The City to commit crimes, please stay
           in your own community and do it there. Thanks. -SF Citizen
           \_ yeah, especially all you people parking illegally and speeding
              on the freeways.
           \_ Yes, we *would* like Critical Mass to stay out of SF.  Defending
              yourself against thugs on wheels isn't a crime.  Nor is carrying
              a weapon if you have a permit.
              \_ Oh you are SO hard.  Can I please have sex with you right now?
              \_ yeah, so car drivers should beware when they do stupid shit
                 like try to drive through a pack of cyclists.
                 \_ which gives us the right to smash their minivans attacking
                    old people and moms with kids who clearly came in to the
                    city looking for trouble.  next time we'll kill their dogs
                    too.  stay off our streets, we own them!  woot!
                    \_ actually, yes, I think it is completely reasonable
                       to take physical action against someone who
                       intentionally ran over multiple people and is trying
                       to run over more (as was captured on video in the
                       Berkeley case).  -tom
                       \_ Oh you mean that edited video where you have to really
                          imagine hard to see that? Only the real kool-aid
                          drinkers came to that conclusion.
                          \_ The video was not edited.  The van wound up
                             on top of two bikes with the van wheel off the
                             ground.
                             But, forget it, you're just trolling.  -tom
                             \_ The report said, "gave us this edited video."
                                Which flavor do you prefer, grape or cherry?
                                \_ The video of the incident is continuous.
                                     -tom
                                   \_ So you've seen the part where the car
                                      enters the group, and the part where the
                                      biker smashes the windshield?  Link
                                     please.
                                     \_ http://youtube.com/watch?v=bo4MpO3kBRE
                                        The windshield smashing wasn't captured
                                        by the video because the camera was
                                        pointed elsewhere, but it clearly
                                        happened after the van driver
                                        intentionally ran over two bicyclists
                                        in front of him.   -tom
                                        \_ "Get em!  Get em now!  We've got
                                           soccer practice back in the burbs
                                           in 45 minutes!"
                                           \_ Nice dodge.  -tom
                                              \_ Wasn't it a Ford?
              \_ Do *you* actually live in San Francisco? -SFC
        \_ This all reminds me of the toxic comments on the articles on
           http://SFGate.com .  There is no way 90 percent of those people live
           anywhere near San Francisco.