8/3     http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1343
        Survey shows just 3% of Americans approve of how Congress is handling
        the war in Iraq; 24% say the same for the President
        \_ The Republicans support the war and the Democrats do not. That is
           not really news.
           \_ "This lack of confidence in Congress cuts across all ideologies.
              Democrats--some of whom had hoped the now Democrat-led Congress
              would bring an end to the war in Iraq--expressed overwhelming
              displeasure with how Congress has handled the war, with 94%
              giving Congress a negative rating in its handling specifically of
              that issue."
              \_ So we agree. The Democrats are upset at Congress for not
                 taking stronger action against the war and the Republicans
                 are upset at Congress for taking action against the war.
                 \_ How many are upset that the Democrats ran on a platform of
                    cleaning up corruption in DC and not only did nothing to
                    clean it up but went out of their way to make it worse?
                    \_ Show me how it's worse. Then show me how the Dems made
                       it so.
                       \_ Because they're doing the exact same thing with
                          earmarks but are also hypocritical liars about it.
                          \_http://www.commonblog.com/story/2007/2/2/155119/1962
                    \_ What do you have against the Ethics Reform Bill? At
                       least it is a step in the right direction.
                       \_ Nothing except the fact they left so many holes in
                          it they shouldn't have bothered.  With control of
                          Congress and a President who will sign it, they
                          could have done a real reform bill but they're all
                          so addicted to giving away other people's money to
                          buy campaign funds they'll never do real reform.
                          It is just a PR bill so in 2008 they can say they
                          cleaned up DC like they promised, meanwhile having
                          filled their pockets with your cash.
                          \_ Bush would never sign real campaign finance
                             reform. The GOP sucks at the teat of big money.
                             \_ Of course he wouldn't.  It was never sent to
                                his desk, duh.  Of course the GOP requires
                                big money.  Hint: so do the Dems.  I find this
                                whole "my guys are angels and your guys are
                                devils" line of non-reasoning both amusing and
                                somewhat sad at the same time.  Try some
                                critical reasoning skills before posting in
                                the future.
                                \_ Are you the same guy who said "did nothing
                                   to make it better but went out of the way
                                   to make it worse." If so, you are a
                                   hypocrite. If not, no one was talking to you.
                                   \_ There is absolutely nothing hypocritical
                                      about saying the Dems are hypocrites on
                                      the issue.  I've always been very
                                      consistent on the motd: both parties
                                      suck equally.  Party politics sucks.
                                      Your pet party is no better than the
                                      opposition party.  Deal.
                                      \_ Nope. The GOP has been more corrupt
                                         this last six years than the Democrats
                                         have ever been. The two parties are
                                         not exactly the same and you are just
                                         a cynic with no idea or hope to
                                         improve things. It is very easy to
                                         sit on the sidelines and whine. Learn
                                         to make some positive change and maybe
                                         someone will pay attention to you.
                                         \_ You're either ignorant or blind.
                                            Both parties have been corrupt,
                                            robbing the tax payers, stealing
                                            elections, and serving themselves
                                            first and foremost for far longer
                                            than anyone here has been alive.
                                            I'm not here to 'make positive
                                            change' nor am I 'sitting on the
                                            sidelines'.  I reject your
                                            ridiculous and damaging two party
                                            scam system.  It is not a mindless
                                            "our guy" or "your guy" choice.
                                            So tell me oh great bringer of
                                            justice and wisdom, what have you
                                            done to make positive change?
                                            \_ For one thing, I was one of the
                                               people that circulated petitions
                                               and then got endorsements from
                                               the Democrats, Republicans and
                                               Greens for a campaign finance
                                               reform initiative on the SF
                                               city ballot, one that passed by
                                               80%+ of the vote.
                                               http://www.csua.org/u/jak
                                               More recently, I have joined
                                               Common Cause. And if you are who
                                               I am pretty sure you are, it is
                                               kind of amusing your sudden
                                               conversion to independent.
                                               Weren't you posting pro-war
                                               Freeper links not that long ago?
                                               \_ I not only have never posted
                                                  freeper links, I think the
                                                  freepers are just as stupid
                                                  as their counterparts at
                                                  dailykos.  So, no.
        \_ This Dem is angry at the Dems for not killing the Farm Bill. I'm
           angry with the vetoing President and the filibustering Republicans
           for everything else.
           \_ Bush has barely vetoed or even threatened to veto much of
              anything compared to most Presidents.  Both parties have
              abused the Senate rules to make almost every vote require 60
              votes to pass anything.  This is all pot, kettle, black.
              \_ Bush's own party had controlled both houses for the majority
                 of his time in office.  I have no actual numbers, but I'd bet
                 that his veto/threat pace this session outstrips many other
                 presidents.
                 http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-08-05-vetoes_N.htm
                 There's some numbers.  Fuck off with your kettles.
                 \_ "Fuck off"?  Childish.  Ok, so where in this article does
                    it say Bush vetoed or even threatened to veto more bills
                    than any other President or even any particular President?
                    You've added absolutely nothing to this but you have shown
                    you're immature and not too bright.  I also see you
                    entirely ignored my point about abuse of Senate rules
                    by both parties which is what PKB was a reference to.
                    Have a nice evening.