7/26    [ Restored ]
        Don't know if it's the weather or what, but I am just damn tired.
        Anyone else out there in a funk, or should I get screened for Lyme
        disease?
        \_ I feel run-down too, but I live in NM.
        \_ I definitely do.
        \_ Yeah, I've been tired the past couple of weeks also. I figured it
           was because of the humidity.
        \_ you should get a dog!
        \_ I am damn tired too, but that is b/c I just finished the last
           day of the bar exam.
           \_ Congrats! How'd that go?
              \_ Well, I survived. Hopefully I passed, but I won't
                 know until Nov 17.
                 \_ Please let us know how this goes, as well as whether you
                    feel it was worth going through law school, etc. I keep
                    being told that engineers do well in law school. Tempted
                    to go down that road myself....
                    \_ I really enjoyed LS despite the difficulty. For
                       me, it was a great career move, esp. considering
                       the *huge* salary jump and increased job security.
                       Some engineers and scientists do do well in LS,
                       but I can't say that every engineer or scientist
                       does well. Some people have a hard time adjusting
                       to the "socratic" method and the reality that your
                       grade in the class is based on a single final exam.
                       \_ Is it really that huge a salary jump? Mid-career
                          programmers make $100k, except for the very few
                          partners in big firms, don't mid-career lawyers
                          make a similar amount?
                          programmers make $100-120k, except for the very few
                          partners in big firms, don't starting lawyers
                          make less than that?
                          make about that?
                          \_ The starting salary for a 1st year is
                             between $135K-$160K plus bonus at many
                             large firms. Partners at most firms
                             make crazy money.
                             \_ http://salary.com says you're about $40k too high
                                with your estimate for SF.
                                \_ I don't know what http://salary.com says, but
                                   I do know what I and my classmates are
                                   making in the south bay.
                                \_ Perhaps http://salary.com is incorrect b/c
                                   most of my classmates got offers in
                                   that range (and I didn't even go to
                                   a very good LS).
                                   \_ http://salary.com has always come in low in
                                      my experience.
                                      \_ In my experience it has been
                                         accurate and I have known the salary
                                         of the two dozen or so people I have
                                         managed throughout my career.
                                         \_ That sounds circular.  "Salary.com
                                            is accurate so I pay at http://salary.com
                                            levels".
                                            \_ Only perhaps because you think
                                               that managers are the primary
                                               determinator of their direct
                                               reports salaries. I never got
                                               to build a team from scratch,
                                               so I always inherited a bunch
                                               of people with salary already
                                               in place. Sometimes I was able
                                               to use http://salary.com to justify
                                               getting HR to do a market
                                               analysis, but that was always to
                                               move salaries up, not down.
                                               \_ Where were you that the mgr
                                                  had no/little say?  Also,
                                                  when you had a new hire did
                                                  you determine their offer or
                                                  did HR?  If it was you did
                                                  you use http://salary.com?
                             \_ There are probably more Google millionaires
                                than "partners" in the Bay Area. Your chance
                                of actually making partner are quite small and
                                you will bust your ass trying to make it.
                                \_ I agree that there are probably many
                                   more google millionaires in the the
                                   bay area than partners and that I
                                   will probably never make partner.
                                   But, for me even the 1st year salary
                                   is far more than I could hope to make
                                   using my mediocre programming skills.
                                   I didn't go to LS to get rich, I just
                                   more google millionaires in the bay
                                   area than partners and that I will
                                   probably never make partner. But, for
                                   me even the 1st year salary is far
                                   more than I could hope to make using
                                   my mediocre programming skills. I
                                   didn't go to LS to get rich, I just
                                   wanted to buy some job security and
                                   get a moderate salary increase.
                                   \_ You probably did the right thing then,
                                      especially if you end up enjoying your
                                      new job better.
                                      \_ That's the key. He might make
                                         a little more money (and after
                                         factoring in law school costs
                                         and lost wages for 3 years it
                                         might be the same) but he has to
                                         enjoy law. A lot of lawyers find
                                         it boring, but it pays too well
                                         to quit - just like a lot of s/w
                                         engineers. However, I have read
                                         surveys which show lawyers to be
                                         among the careers most dissatisfied
                                         with their jobs. By the way,
                                         there is no way any 1st year
                                         lawyers from anywhere except
                                         Harvard are making $135-160K.
                                         Your classmates are lying to you.
                                         Lawyers? Lie? Naw!
             You are right re the cost of LS. It is not _/
             cheap and may not work out economically for
             everyone. LS worked out fairly well for me
             b/c I worked part-time and got a scholarship.
             (The firm salary during 2d year summer was
             quite nice as well).
             I suppose that if you are making $100K+ as a
             coder and have decent job security, there is
             really no reason to switch. Like I said, I
             was a mediocre coder and was not making the
             big bucks like people at google, &c., so LS
             made sense for me.
             Re 1st year salaries, here are some numbers
             for the bay area:
             Palo Alto: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2hpl5x
             SF: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2x7lx8
             (both links from http://infirmation.com)
             Also, I was offered in the range I mentioned,
             and I have no reason to think that others in
             my class were not offered the same. Finally,
             I went to fairly low ranked LS, not Harvard
             or the like.
        \_ Nope, not tired, though I am starting to feel like I need
           a vacation.