7/24 Wow, universal healthcare is expensive
http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010374
\_ It comes to $3000/yr per resident. That's actually less than
my health insurance, which is $4200/yr. I think they should
build in more incentive to wellness on the part of Wisconsin
residents.
\_ Where did you get the $3000/yr value? And what do I care about
"per resident" when it should be "per taxpayer"?
From the article:
The plan would cost an estimated $15.2 billion, or $3 billion
more than the state currently collects in all income, sales and
corporate income taxes. It represents an average of $510 a month
in higher taxes for every Wisconsin worker.
\_ $15.2 billion/population of Wisconsin. It's actually $2700 or
so but I rounded up. My health insurance costs $450 when
all is said and done, so if I were in Wisconsin, it'd be an
extra $100/month for me for there to be universal health
insurance. (I rounded up again.) Workers here with families
pay $900/month for health insurance (most covered by employer).
\_ Of course, government estimates are never wrong.
\_ You'd be paying your $4K + the $3K.
\_ Maybe, maybe not. You might be able to get the money
back from your employer, since his cost will be lower.
\_ And why should people without families pay for those who
have them?
\_ It actually promotes my health not to be surrounded
by sick people.
\_ So paying for someone else's kid's broken leg from
soccer practice makes you healthier? Okey dokey.
\_ No, but paying to control TB for example and for
immunizations in general does.
\_ You are picking and choosing though. Paying
for 'universal healthcare' means you may be
paying for immunizations, but you are also
paying for a crapload of other things, many
of them misused _because_ they are perceived
as 'free.' -- ilyas
\_ And it may well not be doing any good. -- ilyas
\_ And employer provided health insurance
isn't perceived as "free"?
\_ My point wasn't to argue in favor of the
current form of healthcare over
'universal healthcare' but to try to
shift the debate more towards looking
shift the debate more towards looking at
whether healthcare actually helps people
be healthy. -- ilyas
\- a study just came out comparing
newly eligible medicare patients
showing people who went from no
coverage to covered needed more
"work done" than people with
continuous coverage.
\_ I am not surprised that healthcare
would be of benefit to that segment
of the population. This isn't the
same as 'overall effects' on the
whole population, of course.
-- ilyas
\_ Send me a link, please. -- ilyas
\_ there are plenty of people without
healthcare in the U.S.; do you think
they're likely to be healthier than
those with healthcare? I can't
believe I bothered to reply to that
absurdity. -tom
\_ Feel free to actually read the
study I linked (twice now I think)
rather than acting like an ass.
The claim is that while healthcare
has a positive effect (obviously),
this effect is mostly negated by
negative effects (with some
exceptions, for instance optometry
is generally clearly beneficial).
My untutored intuition would say
that healthcare would have a
positive effect, but a very
inefficient one given the amount
of spending. That there might be
no effect is something I think is
pretty scandalous. -- ilyas
\_ I am LEWIS@SODA. I am offering
to teach you about Partial
Derivatives, if you would like
to learn about these wonderous
things.
\_ I think I understand what
an effect is and what it
isn't pretty well. -- ilyas
pretty scandalous. Your example
isn't as obvious as you might
think -- are you controlling
for race, wealth, etc? What should
you control for? What shouldn't
you control for? -- ilyas
\_ I'm going to control for
ilyas being a moron by
stepping out of this
conversation. -tom
\_ So, ausman, to go back to our
earlier discussion: this is
apparently the best place
on the internet you could
find for general discussion?
I brought up this study
repeatedly, because I think
its conclusions are
somewhat counterintuitive
(they certainly are to me).
But the extent of discussion
so far has been either to
ignore it or ridicule it.
Compare to how this study
was discussed on
overcomingbias, for example.
-- ilyas
ignore it or ridicule me for
bringing it up. Compare to
how this study was discussed
on overcomingbias, for
example. -- ilyas |