Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 46990
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2025/04/05 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2007/6/17-19 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:46990 Activity:moderate
6/17    Thanks a lot GWB for your fucking idiotic ethanol and free-market
        petro initiative:
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19276523
        \_ Stop encouraging the terrorists.
        \_ I still don't understand (well, actually I do, it's just that
           the reason is stupid) why we slap hefty tariffs on ethonal
           from Brazil, where they're able to produce it much more cheaply
           and efficiently (directly from sugar rather than corn.)  -John
           \_ I read that even their version is still not nearly as
              efficient as plain old gasoline while requiring huge amounts
              of land.
              \_ that is not a fair comparison.  We heavily subsidize petroleum
                 and coal industry that it's not even funny.  When I say
                 'subsidies,' I count relaxzation of tail gas and other
                 environmental regulation as a "subsidies."
           \_ Because the point of ethanol isn't to become "energy independent"
              the point is to shift massive amounts of taxpayer dollars to
              corporations like ADM.  But the message "We've figured out a
              way to enrich ADM shareholders" doesn't have the same catchy
              popular appear as "an energy independent America"
        \_ the hell?  there is NOTHING FREE-MARKET about this ethanol thing
           and I still don't understand all these so-called liberals who
           pride themselves been more intelligent than those from Bush
           Countries fell for it.  Fact:  right now, government subsides
           about $1 per gallon for fuel-grade ethanol.  Fact: we impose 18%
           tariff on ethanol imports.  IMHO, all these money goes to corn
           producers instead of true innovations bothers me.  This is why
           I don't believe this entire EthOH thing.
2025/04/05 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Cache (3809 bytes)
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19276523
Oil & Energy Ethanol could keep price of gas high Industry won't expand refineries since demand for gas will remain the same Image: Refinery Ric Francis / AP Oil industry representatives say if the need for gas stays flat due to ethanol use, there's no need to build more refineries. Consumer advocates say fewer facilities make it easier to keep gas prices high. WASHINGTON - A push from Congress and the White House for huge increases in biofuels, such as ethanol, is prompting the oil industry to scale back its plans for refinery expansions. That could keep gasoline prices high, possibly for years to come. With President Bush calling for a 20 percent drop in gasoline use and the Senate now debating legislation for huge increases in ethanol production, oil companies see growing uncertainty about future gasoline demand and little need to expand refineries or build new ones. Oil industry executives no longer believe there will be the demand for gasoline over the next decade to warrant the billions of dollars in refinery expansions -- as much as 10 percent increase in new refining capacity -- they anticipated as recently as a year ago. Biofuels such as ethanol and efforts to get automakers to build more fuel-efficient cars and SUVs have been portrayed as key to countering high gasoline prices, but it is likely to do little to curb costs at the pump today, or in the years ahead as refiners reduce gasoline production. A shortage of refineries frequently has been blamed by politicians for the sharp price spikes in gasoline, as was the case last week by Sen. "The fact is that Americans are paying more at the pump because we do not have the domestic capacity to refine the fuels consumers demand," Inhofe complained as he tried unsuccessfully to get into the bill a proposal to ease permitting and environmental rules for refineries. gas Here are some facts on refinery gasoline production and ethanol use. This spring, refiners, hampered by outages, could not keep up with demand and imports were down because of greater fuel demand in Europe and elsewhere. Despite stable -- even sometimes declining -- oil prices, gasoline prices soared to record levels and remain well above $3 a gallon. Consumer advocates maintain the oil industry likes it that way. "By creating a situation of extremely tight supply, the oil companies gain control over price at the wholesale level," said Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America. He argued that a wave of mergers in recent years created a refining industry that "has no interest in creating spare (refining) capacity." Only last year, the Energy Department was told that refiners, reaping big profits and anticipating growing demand, were looking at boosting their refining capacity by more than 16 million barrels a day, a roughly 10 percent increase. That would be enough to produce an additional 37 million gallons of gasoline daily. But oil companies already have scaled those expansion plans back by nearly 40 percent. More cancellations are expected if Congress passes legislation now before the Senate calling for 15 billion gallons of ethanol use by 2015 and more than double that by 2022, say industry and government officials. Costs don't stop drivers from going it alone "These (expansion) decisions are being revisited in boardrooms across the refining sector," said Charlie Drevna, executive vice president of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association. With the anticipated growth in biofuels, "your getting down to needing little or no additional gasoline production" above what is being made today, said Joanne Shore, an analyst for the government's Energy Information Administration. In 2006, motorists used 143 billion gallons of gasoline, of which 136 billion was produced by US refineries, and the rest imported.