Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 46989
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2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2007/6/17-19 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:46989 Activity:kinda low
6/17    I really don't understand this 100MPG plug-in hybrid hype. If you
        charge the big battery up and drive only 5-10 miles in between
        charges and NEVER use the gasoline, wouldn't you technically have
        an infinite MPG vehicle? Do you see how lame it is to call it
        a 100MPG plug-in hybrid if your power source comes elsewhere?
        \_ URL for the 100MPG claim please?
           \_ http://www.calcars.org/calcars-news/364.html for one.
              Yes, it's lame. -tom
        \_ The way I interpret this is that for the Prius you still need
           the gas engine for acceleration.  The gas engine and elec.
           motor by itself is not powerful enough for all driving
           situation.  If you go 100% electric, you'll have a really
           low-powered car.  So instead of the elec. motor assisting
           the gas engine, you are doing the opposite.  Thus the 100MPG
           claim for the first 30-40 miles.  Yes, the power comes from
           other source, but it is easier to market it as MPG.  The
           average person has no clue how much electricity is really
           used in terms of driving or everyday usage.
           \_ yes, it's easier to market complete falsehoods.  "My commute
              is 50 miles including a 25 mile ferry ride, so I get 100MPG
              in my Prius!"  -tom
           \_ If that's the intention, the author should use phrases like "an
              equivalent of 100MPG".
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

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www.calcars.org/calcars-news/364.html
Become a subscriber to CalCars-News: Submit CNET stopped by at the Maker Faire. This story, has gotten 84 comments (I made one early on, responding to "Cynic: Hidden Cost") -- but it might be helpful for others to jump in and educate CNET's audience. com Published: April 25, 2006, 4:00 AM PDT What's new: Several small companies are working on ways to convert standard hybrid cars into plug-in hybrids that use even less gasoline and reportedly get up to 100 miles per gallon. Bottom line: Initial costs are still high, but do-it-yourself kits, solar power and attention from big-name automakers could make plug-in hybrids much more affordable. A car that doesn't need gas, or at least not much, is getting slightly more realistic all the time. A few small companies will start to offer services and products for converting hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius that currently get around 50 miles per gallon into plug-in hybrids that rely more heavily on electrical power and can get about 100 miles per gallon. "I get about 99 miles to the gallon," said Felix Kramer, founder of The California Cars Initiative (CalCars), who owns the eighth Prius converted into a plug-in hybrid. "When gasoline costs $3 a gallon, driving most gasoline cars costs 8 to 20 cents a mile. With a plug-in hybrid, your local travel and commuting can go down to 2 to 4 cents a mile." In general, plug-in hybrids have much larger battery packs than standard hybrids--in prototypes, the extra batteries fill up the space where spare tires now reside--and much smaller gas motors. The batteries can be recharged by plugging the car into any wall socket. Under 34 miles per hour, the electric motor effectively powers the car on its own, said Kramer. Over that--and during bursts of acceleration--the gas motor begins to help incrementally. "Sixty-five percent of drivers will not use gas on a daily basis. The only time you ever use gasoline is when you go on vacation or go skiing," said Andrew Frank, a professor of mechanical engineering at the University of California at Davis who has made plug-in hybrids out of stock Mercury Sables and a Chevy Suburban. The Suburban has been tested on General Motors' off-road track. "It would do the same thing as a conventional Suburban, including towing a trailer," he added. It all comes down to cost But conversion won't be cheap--at least initially. California's EDrive Systems will charge around $10,000 to $12,000 to install the extra lithium batteries needed to turn a standard Prius into a plug-in hybrid when its service begins later this summer. At that price, and with gas at $3 a gallon, it would take around 160,000 to 200,000 miles of driving to break even. As a result, conversion services today are really being sold more as a luxury option or status symbol. But some groups are looking to the do-it-yourself crowd for a cheaper solution. Canada's Hymotion, which already converts fleets of hybrids for corporate customers, will charge about $9,500 for a kit aimed at consumers that it will start shipping in October. CalCars is working with independent inventors to bring the price of a DIY kit based around an open blueprint to about $3,000. "Our goal for the build kit is this summer, but making this happen will be a volunteer project--as are most open-source efforts--so I'm not in a position to promise," Kramer said. Mass manufacturing, though, could lower the prices dramatically over time. Frank estimates that a plug-in hybrid with a 60-mile range (meaning the car can run on electricity alone for up to 60 miles) might cost only $6,000 to $7,000 more to mass manufacture than a conventional car in a few years. A standard hybrid currently goes for about $3,000 more than gasoline-driven cars. To get to that point, however, battery technology, which tends to progress slowly, will need to improve. Auto manufacturers will have to improve the transmissions and other components that go into a hybrid. The high cost is one of the primary reasons that major auto manufacturers have been lukewarm to the concept of plug-in cars, engineers at large auto manufacturers have said. Finding ways to stash the battery without compromising passenger or cargo room is another. DaimlerChrysler will produce 40 plug-in versions of its Sprinter minivan for testing the concept. Pollution-free Over several years, the cars also can pave the way toward nearly pollution-free cars, said Frank. Because gasoline consumption is modest, it will likely be possible to build plug-in hybrids that burn ethanol rather than gas. For electricity, the cars could harvest solar power from solar panels installed in garages or houses. Although electric motors don't pollute, electricity gets generated in coal-burning plants, one of the largest sources of greenhouse gases. Studies show that most cars are on the road for only three hours a day and could be charged the remaining hours. Installing solar panels on garage roofs and homes will take a bit of capital, but the costs of making and installing solar technology are expected to go down over time as well. It will take 20 years or more to take the PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle) to get into our society," Frank said. Nonetheless, "we can greatly reduce the amount of liquid fuel we use for transportation," he said.