6/11    Mid-range Unix/Linux sysadmin job available on campus, working with
        the Math, Physics, and other scientific departments within L&S.
        Apply through the crappy campus jobs system
        http://jobs.berkeley.edu, job #006645.  -tom
        \_ What is the salary range? What would it be for a senior?
           \_ It's a PA III job; realistic starting salary
              (up to mid-point of PA III range) is $58-$82K.  A senior
              sysadmin would be PA IV, starting at $70-$100K.  -tom
              \_ $85k mid point for a senior sysadmin?  What real senior or
                 even most mid level unix people would take that job?
                 Seriously, those are the rates?  Wow....
                 \_ No, $100K is the midpoint, but at the university it's
                    hard to get hired above the midpoint, so I avoid listing
                    the entire salary range for the position.  -tom
                 \_ No, $100K is the midpoint of PA IV, but at the university
                    it's hard to get hired above the midpoint, so I avoid
                    listing the entire salary range for the position.  -tom
                    \_ $100k for a senior unix person is still really low.
                       Is there some other non-obvious benefit to working
                       there?
                       \_ Why do you say $100K is really low? Most salary
                          calculators have $100K as about right, even for
                          SFBA. What do you think it should pay in order
                          to be competitive? $180K?
                          \_ The calculators always come in low.  If your
                             salary is spot on with a calculator you're
                             underpaid.
                             \_ That has not been my experience and I have
                                supervised people, so I have knowledge of
                                dozens of peoples real salaries over the
                                last five years. What industry are you in?
                                \_ Tech industry.  Maybe your company just
                                   pays low.  Do you target "the 50% mark" for
                                   hires?  You'll get "50% quality" people.
                                   \_ In my experience, the best quality
                                      people aren't the ones primarily
                                      motivated by high salaries.  -tom
                                      \_ Your experience seems limited to a
                                         place where all salaries are low so
                                         of course you don't meet quality
                                         people who can command a higher
                                         salary.  They never applied.  If you
                                         can truly get quality people with low
                                         salary offers then more power to you
                                         but from your comment about how it
                                         would be better if it was easier to
                                         get rid of the dead weight that does
                                         not seem to be the case.
                                         \_ I worked in the industry for
                                            over 8 years, so no, my experience
                                            is not limited to UC.  And the
                                            issues of hiring new good people
                                            and getting rid of old dead weight
                                            are completely separate.  -tom
                       \_ There are really awesome retirement benefits.
                          So good that you don't need to contribute to
                          a 401k, so that is worth another 15% or so.
                          \_ I don't think this is true.  The mandatory
                             contribution is not enough especially with the
                             recent performance since they outsourced the
                             fund management.  While if you work at UC for
                             a really long time you do get a pension-like
                             compensation, "long time" is the key phrase.
                             In addition to the generally higher salary,
                             other companies often provide 401k-matching
                             and whatnot.  I think the advantage is the
                             campus culture/environment.  Most of my
                             coworkers can take a day off or work from home
                             on short notices when their child is sick and
                             such.
                             \_ It is the pension that really rocks. It is
                                worth quite a bit, if you do the math, but
                                yes, you have to plan to be at the UC for
                                most of your career for it to make sense.
                                At least 20 years. As for taking a day off
                                when your child is sick, isn't that true for
                                most employers?
                                \_ Okay, a sick child may be a bad example.
                                   But in general, the flexibility of a
                                   university job is superior to most US
                                   businesses.  While pension for a lifer
                                   is certainly a good chunk of money one
                                   can depend on, the higher earning while
                                   working at non-UC can be well-invested
                                   to close this gap.  Oh, and I guess job
                                   security can also be considered an
                                   advantage.
                                   \_ Also: Generally UC jobs are 40 hours
                                      per week or thereabouts.  Plus you're
                                      working for an institution with a
                                      meaningful mission, and you're not
                                      going to get outsourced to Bangalore.
                                                                 \_Bengaluru
                                      Make sure you're comparing apples to
                                      apples.  -tom
                                      \_ No one has ever been laid off from
                                         UC?
                                         \_ Layoffs are exceedingly rare. -tom
                                            \_ Much to the dismay of the
                                               taxpayers :-)
                                               \_ Frankly, I think the
                                                  organization would be better
                                                  off if staff had less
                                                  "tenure," but I don't see
                                                  it changing any time soon.
                                                    -tom
                                         \_ Are we distinguishing between
                                            layoffs and firings?  I knew a
                                            woman at UC that was being fired.
                                            She had over a year notice.  Not
                                            only that, but she had access to
                                            employee records, including her
                                            own!  When someone went to retrieve
                                            it from her, she went into a room
                                            with her own file relatively full,
                                            closed the door, then later came
                                            out with the file, no longer as
                                            full.  Obviously, something is
                                            broken, but without a central
                                            campus-wide HR, that's not gonna
                                            happen anytime soon.
                                            \_ Stripped her own file?  Cool.
                                               Anyone actually do anything
                                               about that or is that the one
                                               year notice thing?
                                      \_ I think there will be a lot more
                                         outsourcing, even of gov't jobs,
                                         in the form of contracts to
                                         provide services (e.g. storage,
                                         CPU, web hosting, etc.). IT
                                         managers want you to buy services
                                         off of a menu and the fact that
                                         people in Bangalore are 90% of
                                                   \-Bengaluru
                                         the operations providing the
                                         service is not relevant. The only
                                         safe gov't jobs are DOD and DOE
                                         jobs. I wouldn't lump UC in with
                                         those.
                                         \_ No, DoD jobs are not safe
                                            either.  I know >3 DoD
                                            people who have got booted,
                                            and my acquaitence base is
                                            not very wide.
                                            \_ Fired for sucking or their
                                               division laid off?
                                            \_ DoD jobs are safe from
                                               *outsourcing*. It's
                                               possible the work can go
                                               away entirely, but that's
                                               something else. Any jobs
                                               that require security
                                               clearances are safe for now
                                               as far as outsourcing. That
                                               does not include most of UC.