Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 46893
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2018/08/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2007/6/8-13 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:46893 Activity:moderate
6/9     Dear hybrid and bike riding fanatics who hate SUVs: What do you
        think about people driving their RVs across the country, or people
        who fly planes (with much less miles per jet-A fuels than miles
        per 87-91 octane fuels for cars), or people who drive high
        performance sportscars with only 10-15MPG? What about the amount
        of pollutants an electric car battery (or hybrid car battery)
        emits and destroys the earth at the end of the battery's lifetime?
        I'm just trying to understand why liberals think the way they do
        Thanks for any insight.
        \_ Hi non-interesting-troll!  Commuting daily with your
           bicycle has nothing to do with the above.  Please
           be funnier.
        \_ I don't love hybrids or hate SUVs per se.  I hate people who have
           alternatives commute solo over long distance in vehicles with low
           gas mileage.  Also, I hate people who drive SUVs as if they're
           driving a car, and then complain that SUVs are dangerous.  Before
           the "SUV" era, people drove 4x4s as 4x4s and minivans as minivans,
           not as cars.  I bought my first "SUV" in 1992, and my friends called
           it a truck.
           driving cars, and then complain that SUVs are dangerous, forcing
           manufacturers to "domesticate" SUVs with silly changes like
           lowering the CG in the expense of ground clearence and body
           ruggedness.  Before the "SUV" era, people drove 4x4s as 4x4s and
           minivans as minivans, not as cars.  I bought my first "SUV" in
           1992, and my friends called it a truck.
        \_ I hate suvs cause I can't see around them.  Simple as that.
           They make the road more dangerous.
           \_ Agreed. I'm not an enviro-fanatic but I hate SUV's and any other
              tall vehicles. BMW's also tend to piss me off because they seem
              to always be driven by assholes.
              \- a lot of the older driving stereotypes ... BMW drivers,
                 people driving large cars poorly etc are now trumped
                 by people driving cluelessly due to cellphone use.
                 of course a woman in an humvee who isnt a good driver
                 while on a cellphone in downtown sf [i.e. yesterday]
                 is even worse.
                 \_ BMW drivers aren't just bad.  They are assholes.  Of
                    the won't let you pass, cut you off, don't use turn
                    signal, tailgateing, driving too fast variety.
                    Yes it isn't all of them, but they are higher than
                    the average.
                    \_ I'll let you in on a secret. When you drive a BMW,
                       Mercedes, Lexus, or such, the people in other
                       luxury cars treat you much better. However, what
                       you then face is people in beaters (especially
                       mammoth trucks) being rude to you in all of the
                       ways as described above. You can draw your own
                       conclusions. From where I sit (as someone with a
                       BMW and a Lexus) everyone else seems to drive like
                       jerks and people with luxury cars drive better -
                       mostly because they don't want to total them. The
                       guy in the 1982 Tercel is the idiot going 95 mph
                       and passing on the right and all of the dents in
                       his car prove that he's none too careful.
                       \_ Let me in on a secret.  They are still assholes.
                          And yes there is a the young guy in beater car
                          group that I also pay a bit more attention to.
                          BMW drivers tend to be more assholes than Mercedes
                          and Lexuses (except for Lexus SUVs, those are the
                          absolute worst in me experiance.)
                          \_ The reason is that BMW is more of a performance
                             car. Things that you wouldn't try in another
                             car are easily done in a BMW and after
                             driving a while you know what the car can and
                             cannot do. My Lexus is an IS350, which is also
                             a performance car. Many Lexus drivers are
                             driving big sedans that do not handle well.
                             So, while it may look like BMW drivers are being
                             jerks and driving recklessly, we are actually
                             pretty safe, although we sometimes get
                             annoyed at people in cars who cannot keep up.
                              --bmw asshole
                             P.S. I find Pious, er Prius drivers to be the
                             worst and their expressions are so smug I
                             want to beat them to death with their own
                             \- supposedly the prius problem is they are
                                spending too much time looking at those
                                meters that have nothing to do with driving.
                                and supposedly some also try to spend time
                                "optimizing" ... although i kida wonder on
                                short blocks if some manual transmission
                                drivers drive annoyingly slowly between
                                stops to avoud shifting ... like i'll just
                                drive at 20mph.
                                stops to avoud shifting ... like just
                                driving at 20mph.
                                BTW, i think the reason BMW have a higher
                                proportion of asshole drivers is they market
                                to supposedly "serious" drivers ... which
                                is not who say lexus markets to.
                                And i think it is worth distinguishing between
                                And a think it is worth distinguishing between
                                aggressive and asshole driving. asshole is:
                                not signaling lane changes, tailgating without
                                a good reason, like in heavy traffic, cutting
                                people off, not letting people into a lane
                                when they have been perfectly reasonable [not
                                like somebody freeriding a merge]. i drive
                                quite aggressively but i singal lane changes,
                                dont cut in front of people because i have a
                                low accelleration car. i dont t'gate unless
                                somebody is driving slowly in the fast lane,
                                in which i will do all kinds of things to them
                                except flash my lights (tgate, weave, pass
                                on right, glare at them while passing, cut
                                them off after passing, slam on brakes after
                                cutting off after passing (depends on how
                                obnoxious they were)). i do much less of this
                                when driving with other people in the car
                                because if you have to allocate part of your
                                brain to having a conversation, you should get
                                out of the fast lane and just drive ambient
                                traffic speed.
                                i dont tailgate unless somebody is driving
                                slowly in the fast lane, in which i will do
                                all kinds of things to them except flash my
                                lights (tailgate, weave, pass on right, glare
                                at them while passing, cut them off after
                                passing, slam on brakes after cutting off after
                                passing (depends on how obnoxious they were)).
                                i also dont cut in front of people because
                                i have a low accelleration car.
                             \_ Care to give an example of a thing that is
                                "easily done" in a BMW that you wouldn't
                                try in another car? I like BMWs and all but
                                the reality is that on public roads, whatever
                                maneuvers you may do are probably illegal or
                                dangerous, especially a freeway situation
                                like we're probably thinking about when we
                                think of asshole drivers. Darting into spaces
                                between cars isn't safe; you're getting into
                                people's buffer zones, and if other people
                                made sudden moves like that you could get
                                \_ Merging, taking turns faster, stopping more
                                   quickly, accelerating faster (e.g. when
                                   getting on the freeway). In my old Nissan I
                                   felt afraid going more than 60 and the
                                   handling was terrible. I feel my car
                                   has helped me avoid accidents I could
                                   not have avoided in my Nissan or Honda.
                                   When you're on a winding road and a BMW
                                   whooshes by you it's not that the guy
                                   is unsafe or an asshole. It's that his
                                   car can actually do it. What annoys me
                                   is people who drive their old Datsun
                                   like it was a Porsche.
                                   \_ Merging onto freeways quickly won't
                                      generally make people think you're
                                      an asshole. It's more the tailgating,
                                      cutting off, not letting you merge etc.
                                      \_ Can't say I do any of that except
                                         maybe tailgate when there's a
                                         person driving 45 in the fast lane.
                                   \_ You haven't cited a single example of
                                      something that's safe in a BMW, but
                                      unsafe in a typical Nissan sedan.  In
                                      your example of a BMW whooshing by on a
                                      winding road, no the BMW driver is not
                                      being safe.  Any time you drive
                                      substantially faster than surrounding
                                      traffic, you are not driving safely.
                                   \_ I drive an Audi TT and do a lot of
                                      maneuvering I wouldn't have tried in our
                                      Jeep in Chile or with my dad's VW
                                      Passat station wagon.  It accelerates
                                      and brakes very precisely, holds the
                                      roads well in curves, and generally
                                      gives me more control, say, a family
                                      sedan.  I know what I can and can't do
                                      in it, and hence tend to cut my
                                      tolerances closer when, merging or
                                      slowing down behind people in front
                                      (which can be taken as tailgating.)  It
                                      gets really dangerous when some asshole
                                      becomes huffy that you passed him and
                                      starts trying to prove something.  -John
        \_ In general, I think there are limited resources in the world and
           that if we don't collectively reduce our usage of them, we risk
           environmental degredation or perhaps even collapse. So I try to
           tread lightly on the earth. There is also the notion of "Live simply
           so that other's can simply live" which is to say that my increased
           consumption of gasoline would tend to raise the price for those
           who actually need it more than me. Individually, these actions
           have no effect, but collectively they can be very strong. I don't
           actually "hate" SUVs, and I think there are rare situations when
           they are appropriate (say, you and your large family live on
           an unpaved mountain road) but I do strongly disapprove of people
           who are wasteful in general.
        \_ Not all liberals are smart.  The fundamental issues are 1.
           reduce consumption per capita, and 2. have no more than 2 children
           per household.   Car is by far least energy efficient mean of
           transportation.  If you think of it.  it's about 2000 pound vehicle
           design to transport 200 pound cargo.   this means more than 90% of
           energy is used just to carry itself.  SUV is worse; Hybrid is
           fundamentally more efficient than what we got on the table, albeit
           it is not a miracle.  I don't have issue with SUV driver per se,
           but I have serious issue with our current law, which as it is
           right now, classifies SUV as a "secondary vehicle" thus does not
           have the same emission and safety standard as regular passenger
           cars.  Again, I am a "conservative" in a sense that I belive in
           market solution.  This means I 1. oppose any relaxation on refinary
           / coal fire power plant's emission/exhaust gas 2. oppose any
           tax break on oil exploration 3. oppose any royalty-free deal that
           extract fuels out of federal land and 4. oppose any subsidies in
           so-called bio-disel 5. oppose any tariff on ethanol from Brazil
           (currently run at 18%).  By enforcing emission and environment
           standard on oil refinary and removing any subsidies from gas
           exploration, price of gas will be no longer aribitarily low.
           When gas is $8-10 dollar a gallon, people will find way to conserve
           energy consumption.  The beauty of it is that all sort of
           alternative energy/transportation innovation will mushroom. And
           people will get rid of their SUVs, 4000 pound Lexus, and other
           fuel-inefficient cars and reduce the energy consumption.
           \_ Isn't it amazing that modesty, thrift and temperance are now
              considered "liberal" values?
              \_ There was a time when compassionate toward the poor and
                 needy is considered as a Christian values too...
                 \_ Still is, the difference is, Christians want to actually
                    help, not just feel good about themselves.  Government
                    social programs often make things worse.
                    \_ Yeah, and charities have no shortage of volunteers and
                       monetary support, what with 82% of the country being
                       Christian.  Yup, good ol' Christian generosity will
                       fix all our social ills.  Fuck off.
                       \_ We've had decades of welfare programs and no shortage
                          of social ills. Fuck off. (Besides, who are these
                          people suffering from a charity shortage?) -!ppp
                    \_ If Christians really had this level of moral
                       sophistication they wouldn't need to posit a
                       'kindergarden universe' where you get spanked eternally
                       if you are bad.
                       \_ The underlying philosophy has little to do with
                          daily living and enactment of core teaching and
                          beliefs but if it makes you feel better to think
                          all Christians are childishly unsophisticated
                          regarding their moral systems then it is still
                          mostly a free country.  I prefer not to denegrate
                          an entire class of people based on their harmless
                          belief in fairy tales that tell them to be good
                          to other people.  --Atheist
                          \_ me too, but I have serious problem with
                             the fact that federal dollars can go to these
                             religious organizations, and these organizations
                             then turn around discriminate against people of
                             different faith.
2018/08/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

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