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local Boston station reports that the younger Bacevich's captain said in an e-mail to the family that he was killed by a suicide bomber in a white sedan his unit had stopped on a main highway south of Samarra. The DoD's official release of the incident reported on Monday that, "1st Lt. Andrew Bacevich, professor of International Relations at Boston University, has a long list of publications supporting his self-label of conservative, but he became disillusioned by what he viewed as an overreliance on military power driving foreign policy choices by "conservative" neocons of the Bush Administration.
View Replies To: Ernest_at_the_Beach From the continuation... Bacevich responded: That's why I myself tend not to buy into the charge that Bush and others blatantly lied us into this war. You should probably put believe in quotes, because it amounts to talking yourself into it. They believed that American omnipotence, as well as know-how and determination, could imprint democracy on Iraq. They really believed that, once they succeeded in Iraq, a whole host of ancillary benefits were going to ensue, transforming the political landscape of the Middle East. All of those expectations were bizarre delusions and we're paying the consequences now.
View Replies To: The Old Hoosier That's why I myself tend not to buy into the charge that Bush and others blatantly lied us into this war. You should probably put believe in quotes, because it amounts to talking yourself into it. They believed that American omnipotence, as well as know-how and determination, could imprint democracy on Iraq. They really believed that, once they succeeded in Iraq, a whole host of ancillary benefits were going to ensue, transforming the political landscape of the Middle East. All of those expectations were bizarre delusions and we're paying the consequences now. My response to that is to ask why he believes it is a bizarre delusion? Germany and Japan were rebuilt successfully after WWII and the USA has reaped tremendous benefits. Is there something specific about the Middle East - and Islam - that prevents those societies from being reformed and transformed? The problem isn't that we tried to transform Iraq, it is that you can't transform a corrupt culture unless you utterly destroy it first, which is exactly what happened to Germany and Japan. In Iraq we have tried to build on a corrupt, militaristic, violent, and backwards culture.
View Replies To: The Old Hoosier You know, I don't agree with the older Bacevich in his argument, but it is the first time I've seen a somewhat intelligent opposition to the war. It is conceivable that the Administration deluded themselves into thinking that democracy could be planted in Iraq, and thus lead us into a quagmire. The problem is that nobody really knew how hard the Iraqi people would fight for their own freedoms. It was an honest assertion that the Iraqi people wanted to be free and most Iraqis would fight for that freedom. It is disingenuous to claim that this was a delusion from the start.
View Replies Comment #11 Removed by Moderator To: The Old Hoosier They really believed that, once they succeeded in Iraq, a whole host of ancillary benefits were going to ensue, transforming the political landscape of the Middle East. All of those expectations were bizarre delusions and we're paying the consequences now. Iraq is a success on many levels and the fight for liberty there is far from over. While there are numerous points of failure in the past and likely points of failure in the future, the global trend toward democratic governance continues. Labeling the war as machinations of Neo-Cons is a cop out. It's an off switch for a brain unable to digest the scope of the disease, much less a cure. Smart Bomb mania has been an increasingly dominant phenomenon in our military and politics for decades. It's foolish to pin these bizarre disillusions on the Bush Administration when most of the world has bought into it. Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush know history... They will find themselves in good company with Lincoln, Churchill and more. All of the second guessing and reluctance seen through the lens of history will look pathetic. The Bush Administration will rightfully look courageous. Not because his son died fighting for justice in an American war. I do not envy him because he does not believe in this war. People who do not believe in anything will always live in fear of the people who do.
View Replies To: The Old Hoosier "They believed that American omnipotence, as well as know-how and determination, could imprint democracy on Iraq. They really believed that, once they succeeded in Iraq, a whole host of ancillary benefits were going to ensue, transforming the political landscape of the Middle East." The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 October 31, 1998 STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT Today I am signing into law HR 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act of 1998." This Act makes clear that it is the sense of the Congress that the United States should support those elements of the Iraqi opposition that advocate a very different future for Iraq than the bitter reality of internal repression and external aggression that the current regime in Baghdad now offers. Let me be clear on what the US objectives are: The United States wants Iraq to rejoin the family of nations as a freedom-loving and law-abiding member. This is in our interest and that of our allies within the region. The United States favors an Iraq that offers its people freedom at home. I categorically reject arguments that this is unattainable due to Iraq's history or its ethnic or sectarian make-up. The United States looks forward to a democratically supported regime that would permit us to enter into a dialogue leading to the reintegration of Iraq into normal international life.
View Replies To: whd23 What the hell kind of snotty attitude is that? Now, if one of the Bush twins had been killed your comment would have made some kind of sense. OBL and others have declared that America can be defeated because their country is full of defeatists. The Internet and America's pacifist news media are useful tools for militant Islamics to encourage that defeatism and bolster their own fighters. emboldened the enemy by telling them that America is being defeated and we don't belong in the Middle East to begin with. Interesting to note that you think Bush better fits the description of the sinner, of the one that encourages our enemy to kill.
View Replies To: humint "People who do not believe in anything will always live in fear of the people who do. Colonel "Bacevich graduated from West Point in 1969 and served in the US Army during the Vietnam War from the summer of 1970 to the summer of 1971. Afterwards he held posts in Germany, the United States, and the Persian Gulf up to his retirement from the service with the rank of Colonel in the early 1990s."
View Replies Comment #18 Removed by Moderator To: gate2wire Ummm... Colonel Bacevich is a West Point Grad who served in Vietnam and the Gulf War. Benedict Arnold served valiantly at Ticonderoga and Saratoga.
View Replies To: Ernest_at_the_Beach My heart breaks for the Professor and his wife and I offer my condolences. Your son's brave service will be heralded and applauded and his death will be grieved on this Board, sir.
View Replies To: KingKenrod "Is there something specific about the Middle East - and Islam - that prevents those societies from being reformed and transformed?" You can't transform an Islamic society into a modern, free and democratic society because Islam mandates adherence to a ancient tribal society thousands of years old. The only way to transform the middle east is to ban Islam.
View Replies To: KingKenrod "The problem isn't that we tried to transform Iraq, it is that you can't transform a corrupt culture unless you utterly destroy it first, which is exactly what happened to Germany and Japan." We killed the elite and anyone else willing to fight to the death for Fascism and once we had done that, everyone else in Germany and Japan were willing to get on with their lives. They didn't care that they were no longer living un...
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