Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 46776
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2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

2007/5/28-31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:46776 Activity:nil
5/28    Anti-war critic loses son in Iraq.  Dad is a professor of intl
        relations, was officer in Vietnam War, West Point grad, and got
        Ph.D. in U.S. diplomacy from Princeton.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1834549/posts
        http://tinyurl.com/22fsh2 (washingtonpost.com)
        \_ sad, but nothing new.  Lots of these pro-war guys, including
           policy makers, are talking tough, but not willing to risk their
           lives when it's their turn.  Through out the history, war munggers
           tend to be the chicken shit.
           \_ How is an anti-war critic a pro-war guy?
2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

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2012/7/21-9/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:54440 Activity:nil
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2012/3/26-6/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54347 Activity:nil
3/26    Things I learned from History: Lincoln was photographed with
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2011/11/6-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54212 Activity:nil
11/6    By a 2:1 ratio Americans think that the Iraq war was not worth it:
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        \_ Bad conservatives. You should never change your mind, and you
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2011/2/16-4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54041 Activity:nil
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2010/11/2-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:54001 Activity:nil
11/2    California Uber Alles is such a great song
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2010/9/26-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53966 Activity:nil
9/24    Toture is what gave us the false info on WMD and Iraq.
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2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
7/20    Is jblack still on? What about the rest of the pro-war cheerleaders?
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2010/2/22-3/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53722 Activity:nil
2/20    Ok serious question, NOT political.  This is straight up procedural.
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local Boston station reports that the younger Bacevich's captain said in an e-mail to the family that he was killed by a suicide bomber in a white sedan his unit had stopped on a main highway south of Samarra. The DoD's official release of the incident reported on Monday that, "1st Lt. Andrew Bacevich, professor of International Relations at Boston University, has a long list of publications supporting his self-label of conservative, but he became disillusioned by what he viewed as an overreliance on military power driving foreign policy choices by "conservative" neocons of the Bush Administration. View Replies To: Ernest_at_the_Beach From the continuation... Bacevich responded: That's why I myself tend not to buy into the charge that Bush and others blatantly lied us into this war. You should probably put believe in quotes, because it amounts to talking yourself into it. They believed that American omnipotence, as well as know-how and determination, could imprint democracy on Iraq. They really believed that, once they succeeded in Iraq, a whole host of ancillary benefits were going to ensue, transforming the political landscape of the Middle East. All of those expectations were bizarre delusions and we're paying the consequences now. View Replies To: The Old Hoosier That's why I myself tend not to buy into the charge that Bush and others blatantly lied us into this war. You should probably put believe in quotes, because it amounts to talking yourself into it. They believed that American omnipotence, as well as know-how and determination, could imprint democracy on Iraq. They really believed that, once they succeeded in Iraq, a whole host of ancillary benefits were going to ensue, transforming the political landscape of the Middle East. All of those expectations were bizarre delusions and we're paying the consequences now. My response to that is to ask why he believes it is a bizarre delusion? Germany and Japan were rebuilt successfully after WWII and the USA has reaped tremendous benefits. Is there something specific about the Middle East - and Islam - that prevents those societies from being reformed and transformed? The problem isn't that we tried to transform Iraq, it is that you can't transform a corrupt culture unless you utterly destroy it first, which is exactly what happened to Germany and Japan. In Iraq we have tried to build on a corrupt, militaristic, violent, and backwards culture. View Replies To: The Old Hoosier You know, I don't agree with the older Bacevich in his argument, but it is the first time I've seen a somewhat intelligent opposition to the war. It is conceivable that the Administration deluded themselves into thinking that democracy could be planted in Iraq, and thus lead us into a quagmire. The problem is that nobody really knew how hard the Iraqi people would fight for their own freedoms. It was an honest assertion that the Iraqi people wanted to be free and most Iraqis would fight for that freedom. It is disingenuous to claim that this was a delusion from the start. View Replies Comment #11 Removed by Moderator To: The Old Hoosier They really believed that, once they succeeded in Iraq, a whole host of ancillary benefits were going to ensue, transforming the political landscape of the Middle East. All of those expectations were bizarre delusions and we're paying the consequences now. Iraq is a success on many levels and the fight for liberty there is far from over. While there are numerous points of failure in the past and likely points of failure in the future, the global trend toward democratic governance continues. Labeling the war as machinations of Neo-Cons is a cop out. It's an off switch for a brain unable to digest the scope of the disease, much less a cure. Smart Bomb mania has been an increasingly dominant phenomenon in our military and politics for decades. It's foolish to pin these bizarre disillusions on the Bush Administration when most of the world has bought into it. Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush know history... They will find themselves in good company with Lincoln, Churchill and more. All of the second guessing and reluctance seen through the lens of history will look pathetic. The Bush Administration will rightfully look courageous. Not because his son died fighting for justice in an American war. I do not envy him because he does not believe in this war. People who do not believe in anything will always live in fear of the people who do. View Replies To: The Old Hoosier "They believed that American omnipotence, as well as know-how and determination, could imprint democracy on Iraq. They really believed that, once they succeeded in Iraq, a whole host of ancillary benefits were going to ensue, transforming the political landscape of the Middle East." The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 October 31, 1998 STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT Today I am signing into law HR 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act of 1998." This Act makes clear that it is the sense of the Congress that the United States should support those elements of the Iraqi opposition that advocate a very different future for Iraq than the bitter reality of internal repression and external aggression that the current regime in Baghdad now offers. Let me be clear on what the US objectives are: The United States wants Iraq to rejoin the family of nations as a freedom-loving and law-abiding member. This is in our interest and that of our allies within the region. The United States favors an Iraq that offers its people freedom at home. I categorically reject arguments that this is unattainable due to Iraq's history or its ethnic or sectarian make-up. The United States looks forward to a democratically supported regime that would permit us to enter into a dialogue leading to the reintegration of Iraq into normal international life. View Replies To: whd23 What the hell kind of snotty attitude is that? Now, if one of the Bush twins had been killed your comment would have made some kind of sense. OBL and others have declared that America can be defeated because their country is full of defeatists. The Internet and America's pacifist news media are useful tools for militant Islamics to encourage that defeatism and bolster their own fighters. emboldened the enemy by telling them that America is being defeated and we don't belong in the Middle East to begin with. Interesting to note that you think Bush better fits the description of the sinner, of the one that encourages our enemy to kill. View Replies To: humint "People who do not believe in anything will always live in fear of the people who do. Colonel "Bacevich graduated from West Point in 1969 and served in the US Army during the Vietnam War from the summer of 1970 to the summer of 1971. Afterwards he held posts in Germany, the United States, and the Persian Gulf up to his retirement from the service with the rank of Colonel in the early 1990s." View Replies Comment #18 Removed by Moderator To: gate2wire Ummm... Colonel Bacevich is a West Point Grad who served in Vietnam and the Gulf War. Benedict Arnold served valiantly at Ticonderoga and Saratoga. View Replies To: Ernest_at_the_Beach My heart breaks for the Professor and his wife and I offer my condolences. Your son's brave service will be heralded and applauded and his death will be grieved on this Board, sir. View Replies To: KingKenrod "Is there something specific about the Middle East - and Islam - that prevents those societies from being reformed and transformed?" You can't transform an Islamic society into a modern, free and democratic society because Islam mandates adherence to a ancient tribal society thousands of years old. The only way to transform the middle east is to ban Islam. View Replies To: KingKenrod "The problem isn't that we tried to transform Iraq, it is that you can't transform a corrupt culture unless you utterly destroy it first, which is exactly what happened to Germany and Japan." We killed the elite and anyone else willing to fight to the death for Fascism and once we had done that, everyone else in Germany and Japan were willing to get on with their lives. They didn't care that they were no longer living un...
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Bush to Reporters: Osama's Coming for Your Kids I Lost My Son to a War I Oppose. Page B01 Parents who lose children, whether through accident or illness, inevitably wonder what they could have done to prevent their loss. When my son was killed in Iraq earlier this month at age 27, I found myself pondering my responsibility for his death. Among the hundreds of messages that my wife and I have received, two bore directly on this question. Both held me personally culpable, insisting that my public opposition to the war had provided aid and comfort to the enemy. Each said that my son's death came as a direct result of my antiwar writings. Outlook: Iraq Casualty, Protestor Father Both Doing Their Duty What exactly is a father's duty when his child is sent into harm's way? In the aftermath of his son's death in Iraq, Boston University Professor Andrew J Bacevich explains why his protests against the war were a civic duty, not aid and comfort to the enemy. Facebook This may seem a vile accusation to lay against a grieving father. But in fact, it has become a staple of American political discourse, repeated endlessly by those keen to allow President Bush a free hand in waging his war. By encouraging "the terrorists," opponents of the Iraq conflict increase the risk to US troops. Although the First Amendment protects antiwar critics from being tried for treason, it provides no protection for the hardly less serious charge of failing to support the troops -- today's civic equivalent of dereliction of duty. What exactly is a father's duty when his son is sent into harm's way? Among the many ways to answer that question, mine was this one: As my son was doing his utmost to be a good soldier, I strove to be a good citizen. I know that even now, people of good will find much to admire in Bush's response to that awful day. They endorse his crusade to spread democracy across the Muslim world and to eliminate tyranny from the face of the Earth. They insist not only that his decision to invade Iraq in 2003 was correct but that the war there can still be won. Some -- the members of the "the-surge-is-already-working" school of thought -- even profess to see victory just over the horizon. I believe that such notions are dead wrong and doomed to fail. In books, articles and op-ed pieces, in talks to audiences large and small, I have said as much. "The long war is an unwinnable one," I wrote in this section of The Washington Post in August 2005. "The United States needs to liquidate its presence in Iraq, placing the onus on Iraqis to decide their fate and creating the space for other regional powers to assist in brokering a political settlement. Not for a second did I expect my own efforts to make a difference. But I did nurse the hope that my voice might combine with those of others -- teachers, writers, activists and ordinary folks -- to educate the public about the folly of the course on which the nation has embarked. I hoped that those efforts might produce a political climate conducive to change. I genuinely believed that if the people spoke, our leaders in Washington would listen and respond. The people have spoken, and nothing of substance has changed. The November 2006 midterm elections signified an unambiguous repudiation of the policies that landed us in our present predicament. But half a year later, the war continues, with no end in sight. Indeed, by sending more troops to Iraq (and by extending the tours of those, like my son, who were already there), Bush has signaled his complete disregard for what was once quaintly referred to as "the will of the people." To be fair, responsibility for the war's continuation now rests no less with the Democrats who control Congress than with the president and his party. After my son's death, my state's senators, Edward M Kennedy and John F Kerry, telephoned to express their condolences. Stephen F Lynch, our congressman, attended my son's wake. But when I suggested to each of them the necessity of ending the war, I got the brushoff. More accurately, after ever so briefly pretending to listen, each treated me to a convoluted explanation that said in essence: Don't blame me. We know the answer: to the same people who have the ear of George W Bush and Karl Rove -- namely, wealthy individuals and institutions. Top 35 Most Viewed Post a Comment Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site.
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Numbers, History Cast Shadow on Bush Hopes Despite close horse race with Kerry, president's approval ratings trail those of predecessors who won reelection. Soldier Details Iraq Abuse Defendant in prison scandal gives account of detainee treatment, offers to plead guilty. IN MOVIES New releases: "Troy," "Breakin' All the Rules," "Young Adam," "Godzilla: Uncut," "Word Wars," "With All Deliberate Speed." IN STYLE Fox issued a stunning news release for a reality special called "Seriously, Dude, I'm Gay" in which, two heterosexual men will try to convince people that they are gay.