Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 46687
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2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

2007/5/18-22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:46687 Activity:high
5/18    To the troll who was asking me why I was for the war in Iraq, why don't
        you ask Senator Clinon?  Just in case you wanted to know, here's her
        speech:
        http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html
        \_ Why? Are you saying you would vote for her?
        \_ Commander-In-Chief Hillary Rodham Clinton.
           Doesn't it have a melodious sound?
           Oh, btw, she is against it now. Why haven't you changed your tune?
           \_ It'll never happen.  She wouldn't even be in the race much less
              considered a serious contender if she wasn't a MSM beloved
              Clinton.  So many long for the return of the Bill Clinton days
              they'd support anything with his name even though she's nothing
              like him.  Out here in the real world she has negative ratings
              so high that there's no way she can win the Presidency and they
              only get worse for her as she pisses off the left.  The right
              already knows her while the left continues to figure it out more
              each day.
              \_ The Right has had her on its list of hated people since WJC
                 got elected. They know what they want to think of her, nothing
                 more. She's a lot more than a feminazi caricature, and you
                 wrong yourself to miss that.
                 \_ Why do you feel the need to put words in my mouth?  I
                    never described her as little "more than a feminazi
                    caricature".  If you can't reply to what was said, please
                    don't.  You completely ignore my comments on the number of
                    people on the left who have learned to dislike her while
                    inventing something from whole cloth I didn't say.
                    \_ If the comment does not apply to you, don't take it as
                       such. However, many on the right have her pegged as a
                       feminazi caricature, and she's much more than that.
                       \_ I think if you spend your time arguing someone is
                          'more than just a feminazi' you have already lost
                          the image war.
                          \_ You know, it's surreal conversations like this
                             that remind me why I don't bother with Usenet
                             anymore. *shrug* It's the Right that's written
                             her off as a FemiNazi. Among people who think
                             (read: non-dittoheads), labels like that just
                             stick.
              \_ Are you the same guy who predicted that the Iraq War would
                 be a good idea?
                 \_ aaron?
                 \_ No.  I think when they didn't declare martial law on day 1
                    it was over.  Everything that happened after that as Iraq's
                    situation spiraled down was stupid.  And calling it a War
                    is just wrong at least as far as our troops are concerned.
                    They aren't fighting anyone.  They go on patrols, they get
                    shot at a lot, sometimes roadside bombs go off.  There are
                    near zero efforts to find and go after any of the various
                    forces trying to destabilize the country (for political
                    reasons).  I know you were just being snarky but I figured
                    I'd give you a real answer anyway.
                    \_ Not entirely being snarky. Just pointing out the fact
                       that the Right Wing Oracle seems to be broken these
                       days, so the fact that Republicans are all 100%
                       convinced that Hillary is "unelectable" doesn't
                       neccessarily mean that this is so.
              \_ Read it and weep:
                 link:www.csua.org/u/iqc
                 \_ don't be stupid.
                    \_ TradeSports has been pretty on target with most
                       of its predictions. Do you have a better
                       prediction market?
                       \_ So that was a tradesports link? It doesn't work for
                          me now. I just looked on there and they have Hillary
                          at 40:100 to win. I thought Obama had a much better
                          chance. They also have Gore on there. I guess Gore
                          might join late. Gore vs. Clinton? I have no idea
                          how he'd do. I think he could win the presidency.
                          The problem with him is he has associated himself with
                          a controversial issue. Someone like Giuliani is bland
                          as white bread. You can't really complain about him
                          because all he says is he likes lower taxes and all
                          the usual bullshit. He's probably corrupt but the
                          American people don't care about that. He looks like
                          he's in the mafia (omg racist).
2025/05/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/23    

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2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
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Cache (8192 bytes)
clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html
Clinton Press Release Thank you for visiting my website. Below is the statement I made on the Senate floor on October 10th to explain my decision and vote on the joint Congressional resolution on Iraq. I hope you will take the time to read it with as much care as I have given to making this difficult decision. I am deeply grateful to the thousands of New Yorkers who shared their views on this important issue, and will continue to do my very best in serving the interests of our state and nation. October 10, 2002 Floor Speech of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on SJ Res. I am honored to represent nearly 19 million New Yorkers, a thoughtful democracy of voices and opinions who make themselves heard on the great issues of our day especially this one. Many have contacted my office about this resolution, both in support of and in opposition to it, and I am grateful to all who have expressed an opinion. I also greatly respect the differing opinions within this body. The debate they engender will aid our search for a wise, effective policy. Therefore, on no account should dissent be discouraged or disparaged. It is central to our freedom and to our progress, for on more than one occasion, history has proven our great dissenters to be right. Now, I believe the facts that have brought us to this fateful vote are not in doubt. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who has tortured and killed his own people, even his own family members, to maintain his iron grip on power. He used chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds and on Iranians, killing over 20 thousand people. Unfortunately, during the 1980's, while he engaged in such horrific activity, he enjoyed the support of the American government, because he had oil and was seen as a counterweight to the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran. In 1991, Saddam Hussein invaded and occupied Kuwait, losing the support of the United States. The first President Bush assembled a global coalition, including many Arab states, and threw Saddam out after forty-three days of bombing and a hundred hours of ground operations. The US-led coalition then withdrew, leaving the Kurds and the Shiites, who had risen against Saddam Hussein at our urging, to Saddam's revenge. As a condition for ending the conflict, the United Nations imposed a number of requirements on Iraq, among them disarmament of all weapons of mass destruction, stocks used to make such weapons, and laboratories necessary to do the work. Saddam Hussein agreed, and an inspection system was set up to ensure compliance. And though he repeatedly lied, delayed, and obstructed the inspections work, the inspectors found and destroyed far more weapons of mass destruction capability than were destroyed in the Gulf War, including thousands of chemical weapons, large volumes of chemical and biological stocks, a number of missiles and warheads, a major lab equipped to produce anthrax and other bio-weapons, as well as substantial nuclear facilities. In 1998, Saddam Hussein pressured the United Nations to lift the sanctions by threatening to stop all cooperation with the inspectors. In an attempt to resolve the situation, the UN, unwisely in my view, agreed to put limits on inspections of designated "sovereign sites" including the so-called presidential palaces, which in reality were huge compounds well suited to hold weapons labs, stocks, and records which Saddam Hussein was required by UN resolution to turn over. When Saddam blocked the inspection process, the inspectors left. As a result, President Clinton, with the British and others, ordered an intensive four-day air assault, Operation Desert Fox, on known and suspected weapons of mass destruction sites and other military targets. In 1998, the United States also changed its underlying policy toward Iraq from containment to regime change and began to examine options to effect such a change, including support for Iraqi opposition leaders within the country and abroad. In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security. Some people favor attacking Saddam Hussein now, with any allies we can muster, in the belief that one more round of weapons inspections would not produce the required disarmament, and that deposing Saddam would be a positive good for the Iraqi people and would create the possibility of a secular democratic state in the Middle East, one which could perhaps move the entire region toward democratic reform. This view has appeal to some, because it would assure disarmament; because it would right old wrongs after our abandonment of the Shiites and Kurds in 1991, and our support for Saddam Hussein in the 1980's when he was using chemical weapons and terrorizing his people; and because it would give the Iraqi people a chance to build a future in freedom. We and our NATO allies did not depose Mr Milosevic, who was responsible for more than a quarter of a million people being killed in the 1990s. Instead, by stopping his aggression in Bosnia and Kosovo, and keeping on the tough sanctions, we created the conditions in which his own people threw him out and led to his being in the dock being tried for war crimes as we speak. If we were to attack Iraq now, alone or with few allies, it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us. In recent days, Russia has talked of an invasion of Georgia to attack Chechen rebels. India has mentioned the possibility of a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan. And what if China were to perceive a threat from Taiwan? So Mr President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack, while it cannot be ruled out, on the present facts is not a good option. Others argue that we should work through the United Nations and should only resort to force if and when the United Nations Security Council approves it. Whenever possible we should work through it and strengthen it, for it enables the world to share the risks and burdens of global security and when it acts, it confers a legitimacy that increases the likelihood of long-term success. The UN can help lead the world into a new era of global cooperation and the United States should support that goal. The United Nations is an organization that is still growing and maturing. It often lacks the cohesion to enforce its own mandates. And when Security Council members use the veto, on occasion, for reasons of narrow-minded interests, it cannot act. In Kosovo, the Russians did not approve NATO military action because of political, ethnic, and religious ties to the Serbs. The United States therefore could not obtain a Security Council resolution in favor of the action necessary to stop the dislocation and ethnic cleansing of more than a million Kosovar Albanians. However, most of the world was with us because there was a genuine emergency with thousands dead and a million driven from their homes. As soon as the American-led conflict was over, Russia joined the peacekeeping effort that is still underway. In the case of Iraq, recent comments indicate that one or two Security Council members might never approve force against Saddam Hussein until he has actually used chemical, biological, or God forbid, nuclear weapons. So, Mr President, the question is how do we do our best to both defuse the real threat that Saddam Hussein poses to his people, to the region, including Israel, to the United States, to the world, and at the same time, work to maximize our international support and strengthen the United Nations? While there is no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma, and while peopl...