4/20    Penn & Teller on 2nd Amendment
        http://www.washingtonceasefire.com/content/view/47/45
        \_ Glenn Beck will be talking about gun control tonight on HNN, and
           Penn will be on.
        \_ Its a cute argument and fairly well presented, but every gun
           control advocate would argue that taking guns away from everyone
           will decrease gun posession percentage all around.  They say that
           criminals will get guns regardless, while that may be true, making
           supply illegal would severely limit the availibility. One could see
           parallels between this and drug laws.  Making supply (of any sort)
           illegal makes prosecution and enforcement much easier.  Not that
           I support all drug policy, just using its effects as an example.
           -mrauser
           \_ I'm sorry but the right to bear arms was not penned to
              wage war against furry creatures, it was to defend the
              person against militia men and any standing army (foreign
              and domestic)
              \_ And you feel that having a handgun will protect you against
                 a tank, cruise missles, and f14 planes?  You have no ability
                 to protect yourself against a military.  If thats really
                 what you want you should be lobbying for the ability for
                 citizens to purchase tanks (should they have the money).  A
                 citizen militia is never going to face a modern army.-mrauser
                 \_ no. but those soldiers wont be coming back home to loved
                    ones. it's not like the army would be fighting a war
                    in a foriegn country.. they have to come back and live
                    with the people they killed..
                    ... so the best resistance is destroy the homes and
                    business of those in the military trying to destroy our
                    freedom. If they use F15s , tanks they run the risk
                    of killing their own family members..
                    \_ it's much more likely that you'd have more localized
                       conflict (more like the Civil War) where this would
                       not be much of an issue for the fed military. A bunch
                       of yahoos with civilian guns is pretty much going to
                       get "pwned", even by just normal infantry. A terrorist
                       campaign is also not going to have much effect; by
                       nature it would be limited in scope and lose the
                       propaganda war. Either the gov't wins or you get some
                       form of anarchy. In any case it's unclear that handguns
                       are needed for this.
                       \_ the gov't loses and the US Constitution will be
                        restored (i guess libs call that anarchy)
                        There is no propaganda war to win.. it would be
                        a fight for freedom...
                        \_ Hahahahahahaha. Everyone loved that guy who
                           bombed the OK building right?
                       \_ Tell the Iraqis this.
                          \_ Why?
                       \_ how many Millions died in the civil war?
                        Besides , this time the south will be on the side
                        of the Pro gunners because they love their guns
                          \_ What?
                 \_ THat's what the redcoats thought.  Of course, no one in a
                    tank would ever sympathize with a revolutionary.
                    \_ And there again is a fine argument for not bothering to
                       let the citizenry own guns.
                        \_ perhaps u prefer to stand next to a ditch and
                         get gunned down? Wait a minute!! you want to be
                         the one that guns down pro gunners and conservatives!
                         that's what this is all really about...
                         only way liberals can win is to take away all the
                         guns.. get control of the army and then kill off
                         all the conservatives... that's your plan.. we know..
                 \_ the 2nd amendment describes the state govt fighting against
                    the federal government.  i concede the federal government
                    probably has control of launch codes and can nuke a state,
                    but i feel stupid for participating in this discussion.
              \_ I think everyone should be allowed to have a gun as long
                 as they regularily fire it against representatives of
                 the goverment.