www.intheagora.com/archives/2007/04/nappy_roots.html
I hate to address the Don Imus "nappy-headed hos" comment too much, as it's received far too much attention already. Barack Obama's recent comments on the subject gave me pause.
Obama said, "I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr Imus, but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."
September 15, 2006 Associated Press story (apparently only run in certain midwest newspapers) which offers this blurb about a campaign stop by Obama in Louisville: Obama made a pitch for Democrats running for local government and for Congress at a rally that drew a few thousand party faithful to a minor league baseball stadium in downtown Louisville. Before Obama's speech, the crowd was warmed up by a performance by Nappy Roots, a popular hip-hop group. One day later Kentucky Governor Paul Patton sanctioned September 16th as "Nappy Roots Day." Nappy Roots originated in Kentucky in 1995 and is known in those parts as an alternative Southern rap group.
the group's lyrics shows that many reference "hoes" in a derogatory, women-are-only-pieces-of-meat sort of way. Of course, none of this justifies or excuses Imus' comments in any way. Yet it does seem to reinforce the notion that "nappy hair" and "hoes" are words much like the infamous "n-word". It is permissible and celebrated when members of the black community use it, and condemned and scorned when white comedians use it.
are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money.
We are rappers that have these songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel. I will not let them mutha----as say we in the same league as him." In other words, rappers can use this language to degrade women because they're only degrading poor women who are "trying to get a n---a for his money." Imus made the mistake of going after women who were educated. Ultimately the message to everyone should be clear - language rules for blacks and whites are segregated, and the deliverer of such words will be judged by the color of their skin.
permalink First of all: we've been through this on this site several times, and the short answer is -- yes, the language rules for members of a historically oppressed minority are, indeed, different than the language rules for the historically oppressing majority. This will be true as a general rule, and I suggest you learn to accept it already, and save your indignation for things more worthy of it. Second: in this particular case, lots and lots and lots of people do object to the treatment of women in rap music, and to language of hos, etc. That Snoop Dog is not one of those people is pretty darn irrelevant. Third: rappers don't hold high-profile interviews with major political figures, and don't have their views televised daily on major news networks. The rules in question don't just vary by race, but also by outlet and forum. And Imus has proved that he is rather undeserving of the one that he has had for far too long already.
permalink Radio talk show host makes racist comments - condemnation from all corners and talk of job termination. Rappers make racist comments - hailed as "artists" by critics and talk of Grammy awards.
permalink First of all: There are a significant number of things which we (or at least I) cover "several times," and the fact that something has been discussed before does not mean it's off limits. If it were, I would not be allowed to discuss, for example, pork spending or other budgetary matters. That a certain societal quirk exists does not mean I should "learn to accept it already." The short answer is - I will save my indignation for what I think is worthy of it. You, philosopher, will not be dictating what I do and do not deem interesting. Zach put it well in a comment before: And that's why I blog, to reflect on what interests me... Were I to abandon my interests in favour of the subjects you deam imperative, blogging would seem more like a chore than a labour of love -- and you would have much less of it. Which is a long way of saying that if you are dissatisfied with ITA, then you can expect a full refund in the mail -- just provide your name and address. Third: I fail to see how reaching millions of people through MTV and radio is any less significant than reaching people through MSNBC and radio. Just because it doesn't reach the outlets you watch or isn't discussed in your circles doesn't make it any less significant. Snoop Dogg and his fellow rappers will have an infinitely more signfiicant impact on American culture than Don Imus could ever dream of having. The difference here is that the offensive words made their way on the air waves of media elites who determine the newsworthy stories.
permalink Matt: There is a significant difference between a rapper using the "n-word" and someone like, say, Michael Richards. One is used in a derogatory way with several hundreds of years worth of racist overtones. But the treatment of women deserves no such pass from rappers and Snoop Dogg's feable attempt to justify it is pathetic.
As soon as I heard the audio clip of the Imus show, I was thinking along these lines. The other guy talking with Imus started in with the hip-hop slang when he said "Those are some hard-core hos," to which Imus responded "Those are some nappy-headed hos." It's wrong when hip-hop artists talk like that, and it was wrong and foolish for Imus and the other guy to emulate it. What really struck me about the clip was not that Imus was being racist, but that he was being sexist, because right after his comments about the Rutgers team, he said something like "And the girls from Tennessee, they're all cute."
permalink Frankly, we are fast becoming the epitome of a Jerry Springer society. It seems to have become more important to have an audience and notoriety when confronting conflict than it is to attain resolve and mutual respect. That model seems to serve the needs of the exploited and those who seek to exploit; reinforcing all that relegates objectivity to the outhouse while making the frailty and imperfection of the human condition a spectacle that harkens back to the Coliseum. This situation isn't and shouldn't be about whether liberals or conservatives, this race or that race, hip hop or honky-tonk, one group or another, are more offensive and therefore more responsible for all that is wrong with America. and neither are the countless pundits and partisans who have sought to frame it so. but I often find kinship with the imagery surrounding the portrayal of one called Jesus and his teachings of understanding and forgiveness. For all the banter I hear about the Bible and Christian values, it certainly seems to me that we are fast abandoning what many view as the sacred "tablets" in favor of the sacrosanct tabloids.
permalink I don't think it is accurate to say that we have merely 'been over' the double standard issue before; phil has made a significant contribution to the debate, so much so that casual reference ignores some sophisticated progress in our thinking on the subject. It's not that it is off-limits, rather, it's played out, at least in the absence of a response to phil's earlier comments.
permalink I think my original statement wasn't quite clear, as JC's construal of it wasn't the one I intended; in particular I didn't mean for the remarks to be continuous with the earlier ones where I was trying to urge Zach (inter alia) to take on part of the hard job of engaging with the current sickness that plagues American conservatism down to its bones. It's a job that needs doing, and I was trying to argue that the non-hackish members of this blog are well-situated to do some of it. I'm not saying "write about something else", so much as I'm saying "your claims here are not well justified by the available evidence". For (I was arguing) there isn't as much of a race-based asymmetry as you thi...
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