3/23 L.A. Times leans right. Notice how the top 3/4's of the story spews so
much irrelevant chaff, focusing on how Reagan/Clinton/Dubya fired
most/all attorneys when they came to power. Only toward the end do you
get: "When you have a transition between presidents - especially
presidents of different parties - a U.S. attorney anticipates that you
will be replaced ... the unwritten, No. 1 rule ... is that once you
become a U.S. attorney you have to leave politics at the door."
http://tinyurl.com/2na94k (latimes.com)
The perversion of truth -- especially the willful, disingenuousness
attitude that permeates the Republican Party today -- disgusts me.
\_ I think most politicians are like that. Except guys like Nader
who cannot get elected.
\_ Seriously, do you really believe one party is all beauty and nice
and the other the sole benefactor of all evil? They are the same.
The Democratic party is absolutely in no way shape or form ethically
or morally superior to the Republicans. You have one party with two
names. And btw, how dare the LAT actually tell it's readers that
all USAGs expect to be replaced? Let's not tell anyone anything
that might soften the political damage to the evil Bush even if it
is the truth and relevant to the story.
\_ Answering your first two lines: No. I think both parties are
guilty of stupidity and petty politics designed to keep them-
selves in power; this is the nature of our current political
system. That said, the Bush Admin has done so in a much more
blatant and egregious manner. I expect corruption, but I would
prefer some decorum and a modicum of circumspection along the
way. The current firings are simply insulting. -!op
\_ You have Democratics currently in office in positions of
great power, even holding Chair positions who were caught red
handed in bribery scandals, in land scams, in having $90k in
cash stuffed in their fridge, using the IRS to punish
political enemies, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Don't come on here
and try to tell me the Bush Admin is more blatant and
egreious about anything. I don't find bribery, theft, fraud,
and fridge stuffing to be less corrupt or more circumspec or
providing more decorum than what the Bush admin has done with
the USAG firings. In comparison the USAG thing is trivial BS
and I find it ridiculous and insulting anyone cares *at all*
about this compared with everything else going on in *both*
parties. Do any of the things I mentioned about the Dems
upset you at all? Or would they only be worth mentioning if
they were Republicans? And hey, how about stuffing that Iraq
funding bill with Democratic pork? That's cool, too, huh?
Take off the blinders.
\_ What part of "both parties of are guilty of stupidity and
petty politics" and "I expect corruption" didn't you get?
Jail anyone, Dem, GOP, or Ind. who's engaged in corruption,
bribery, or abuse of power. How can your outrage over
Dem corruption not spill over into the arena of egregious
abuse of the US Atty system to punish political enemies?
Before pointing out the mote in my eye, howzabout dealing
with the beam in your own?
\_ The part where you find firing a few USAG worse than
stuffing $90k in your fridge *and* *still* *keeping*
*your* *seat*. I'd like to see a URL that says why
they were fired and not from a NYT op/ed piece. Show
me a reliable source that says they were fired for not
punishing political enemies. You continue to weigh
(R) ethical violations much heavier than (D) ethical
violations even when the actual events don't match up
like that. Example: Which is worse ethically? Canning
a few prosecutors who server at your whim and aren't on
the same political page (and understood the deal when
they accepted the job) or stuffing bribe money in your
fridge as an elected representative of the American
people at the highest levels of government? Go ahead
and say the fridge stuffing isn't as bad and we can stop
right there. The firing is just hard ball politics and
although unfortunate for the guys sacked, TS. It's a
political event. The fridge stuffing is a felony. How
is that investigation going, huh? It's not. The guy
will be in office until he retires 'honorably'. *That*
is truly sickening.
\_ For the love of G_d, get this: They're both bad.
\_ of what now?
\_ "God". for some level of
orthodoxy among jews, to
write the name of god on
anything that might be erased,
destroyed, damaged, etc, is
profane.
\_ But God is not the name of
god.
\_ ...than to open it and
remove all doubt.
\_ KNEEL BEFORE YAHWEH
\_ For the love of YAHWEH, get this: They're both bad.
I appreciate that you're frustrated that the fridge
investigation has faltered (and yes, it should be
investigated fully), but it's not being held up
just because Congress is investigating Presidential
abuse of power (i.e., firing USAtys for not pursuing
political opponents). If fridge-stuffer is guilty of
accepting bribes, jail his ass. If AG fired the US
Atys because they wouldn't persecute the opposition,
can his ass. Also, didn't the FBI say they had
Jefferson on video taking a bribe? Then they should
arrest him for it! Right now, there appears to be
more evidence of dickery in the White House than in
Jefferson's fridge!
\_ I guess I don't understand why this is a story. Almost every
president fires all the attorneys and replaces them with their own.
W decides to just replace a few. Therefore W is bad? huh?
\_ He decided to replace a few on the basis that they weren't using
their power to hound and harrass the political opposition. An
across-the-board replace wouldn't have raised eyebrows;
demanding loyalty oaths to The Leader is another thing entirely.
\_ Why do you think they normally fire them all? To get loyal
ones. Duh. I see no difference.
\- a company can close a plant and open one a town over.
but they still cant fire all the black people.
you are allowed to hire who you want. you can
fire them for incompetence or if they are not
"getting with the program" but the program cannot
be political prosecutions. a second issue is the
be partisan prosecutions. a second issue is the
"cover up". at this point there is probably nobody
guilty of a legal crime in the executive branch, but
certainly people can be tried in the court of
public opinion for being mendacious, unprincipled
sacks of shit. it is reasonable to hypotheteize
"ALBERTO has made the DOJ a wing of the white
house" ... i think people are free to hold that
against BUSHCO just like they are free to hold
CLINTON being a serial adulterer against him.
much of this turns on the relatively simple distinction
between political and partisan. the doj can have
poltical priorities like going after sodomites and
drug fiends instead of antitrust, but it cannot be
a partisan enforcer like a party whip of chairman who
withhold appointments or $$$ from you. this is not
an especially subtle argument.
\_ I guess you're welcome to hold it against him if you
like. Seems pointless to me, there are pleanty of
actual things he's done wrong to hold against him.
Your "firing the black people" analogy is obviously a
completely false analogy. But, still. You think it's
morally superior to fire everybody, then only rehire
white people? I would argue the opposite. If you only
want to get rid of a few people, don't make everyone go
through the unemployment ringer.
\- you cant hire "only white people". yes, i commented
early on it is odd congress is fixating on this
when there is katerina incompetence, iraq
incompetence, not catching osama, the plutocrati-
zation of society etc. at least w.r.t. to the
iraq war, congress feels they have "clean hands"
here. and of course the dems are in agenda control.
you're also caught in the "93 > 8" mentality.
\_ No crap. You also can't only fire black people.
That's why this is a false analogy, as I noted.
Also: So, 93 < 8? Must be that "new math." :)
\_ Obtuse little fucker.
\_ I don't think it's morally superior. It think it's
Better Form. It implies an understanding that the
appearance of propriety, while not sufficient in
and of itself, is necessary.
\_ Another way to say this is "The first is easier
to prove." I can't argue with that, I just don't
see any moral difference.
\_ Out of curiousity, so you see a moral diff
between this and, oh, using postage to send
mail out as Socks the Cat?
\_ Had to look that one up. Yes, there's a
difference. I can't see anything wrong at
all with using postage to send out mail as
"Socks the Cat."
\_ Okay, then what about the christmas card
list "scandal". That warranted 140 hours
of testimony UNDER OATH to determine that
nothing improper happened. Is there a
moral difference between that possible
impropriety and this?
\_ Seesh, are you just going down a list
a dem talking points, trying to prove
I'm some rep stooge? I can't even
find this story, just dem blogs
whining about it. I never said the
lame-o Rep attempts to get Clinton
were ok, so get off it.
\_ Are you saying, though, that the
firing of the USAs was proper, and
therefore should not be looked
into? That's what you seem to be
saying with "I guess I don't
understand why this is a story."
I think you may be too short for
this discussion.
\_ Sheesh, sorry I'm too young for
you. Somehow pulling out old D
talking points I don't recall
that then saying I'm too "short
for this discussion" seems
amazingly lame though. I'm done.
\_ I'm saying the firing was
standard enough politics to not be worth looking into. I don't like
hardball politics to begin with, so I'm not going to say firings were
'proper,' but they aren't unusual. The Dems are playing lame-o gotcha
games with Bush, just like the Rs did with Clinton. Niether case was
worth the time and money.
\- do you know what united states attorneys do?
\_ So do you prefer the last 6 years of 0 oversight out of congress?
What you call "gotcha games" is what most people call "Congress's
job".
\_ They were unusual _because_ they were firings singling out very
specific individuals on the basis of "performance issues" after all
8 received good evaluations. The LCD here is suspect. And then
they're unusual in that the AG lied in his testimony on the subject.
\_ We've come full circle, just read from the top for replies to
these posts.
\_ I think that the difference in morality
between two different acts of corruption is
a complicated matter of ethics that has been
wrestled with for thousands of years.
\_ Let's see if the American people agree with you or not. I think
the Democrats obviously think they have a winner here or they
would not be pushing so hard. |
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