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| 4/3 |
| 2007/3/1-3 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:45846 Activity:high |
3/1 Science v. Faith:
http://stupidevilbastard.com/Images2/sciencevsfaith.png
\_ This is especially funny considering the religion of Global Warming.
It's got everything including the sale of indulgences (carbon
offsets), silencing of critics, etc.
\_ except in the case of global warming, the idiots are the
ones on the outside. -tom
\_ So what is the big deal about global warming anyway?
Its not like the world has never been more warmer
than it is now. Besides, what is really the problem
w/ a warmer world? More beach front property? Fewer
days you need to wear a sweater? Uninhabitable places
like Canada become ever so slightly liveable? Really,
I just don't see how anyone can get all worked up this,
when there are so many more important things to think
about in this world like Ubuntu vs. Debian, if Duke
Nukem will ever ship and whether the Transformers the
Movie is going to be a HUGE disappointment.
\_ a) it's not about the world now, but what it could
become in the coming decades. these things aren't
instant. b) global climate change can lead to massive
disruptions and deaths. you're pretty ignorant.
\_ What about precession? Have you been around
23K years?
\_ Good thing all the ones "inside" aren't idiots.
http://csua.org/u/i54
\_ Yes, that is the standard response by the faithful.
\_ Sure, people like Dr. Roy Spencer are idtiots.
\_ Sure, people like Dr. Roy Spencer are idiots.
http://csua.org/u/i4w
\_ Spencer is a big advocate of intelligent design and a
lackey for the right. -tom
\_ Woah! I'm glad I clicked on that link. I was expecting
some typical Bjorn Lomborg style hottair horseshit, but this
was actually a good article. I think he falls into the very
trap he accuses other climate scientists of when he claims
that "our climate seems to have a 'preferred' average
temperature, damping out swings beyond 1 degree or so."
I even the mickey-mouse crowd like Lomborg are willing to
admit the existence of ice ages in the Earth's past, and
that climate events of that scale would be devastating
for our civilization. His understanding of the dynamics
tells him that there's more longterm stability than we
know there to be looking at well-established climate
history.
\_ Requiring proof beyond doubt that CO2 emissions lead to
climate change is stupid. The consequences of climate
change far outweigh the economic pain of a switch to
greener erngy. Being proactive is the only reasonable
course.
\_ So you agree with the premise of Pascal's wager? What
religion did you join?
\_ One can believe in Pascal's wager and Hume's
theological bet without running off and joining an
organized religion. The difference is that
(competent) scientists who make statements about
global warming are making empirical claims which are
falsifiable. I am not aware of any organized relgion
that makes falsifiable claims about its deity. If
you know of such a religion, let me know, otherwise
you're just presenting a straw man.
P.S. On an unrelated note, it's good to see that now
that tom is back he is as easily baited as ever. -dans
\_ I'm not aware that anything about Global Warming is
falsifiable. It's quite ad hoc and seems to not
take into account very important things, including
Dr. Spencer's comments about weather.
\_ Of course global warming is falsifiable; measure
drops in average temperature, increases in
glacial/polar ice. Spencer's opinion has
been thoroughly discredited. -tom
\_ Please point me to where I can verify that
he's been discredited. Also, show me what
theories about global warming say about cloud
cover.
\_ (dans, please stop "helping")
\_ Fuck off.
Your hating on me, just shows how good
I am. -dans
\_ Good? Hating? Please. If you're
going to imitate me, at least get
the details right. Good is a
weakass wanker's adjective.
Hating/Hater are the province of
the likes of tjb. Besides, it's
easy to get tom to hate on you.
-dans
\_ Also, your imitator's posts are
nowhere near long-winded enough
to be authentic-looking.
\_ Point. Imitators should
be sure to duplicate my
tendency for verbal diarrhea.
-dans
His mode with global warming is exactly
the same as with intelligent design;
make broad comments with no real backing
that jibe with what Rush Limbaugh's
listeners want to hear, and make outright
lies about existing research.
The IPCC report is a good place to start
if you're really interested. I assure
you that climate scientists are quite
aware that sometimes it's cloudy. -tom
\_ Tom, in your honest opinion, is the
IPCC report a readable document?
\_ I don't think it's a document
designed for laypeople, if that's
the question. -tom
\_ Actually, he addresses the temperature
of the lower atmosphere. His critics
say that he hasn't tweaked the raw data
the right way. Not exactly convincing.
\_ Sorry buddy, you don't get to play that
game. Saying, wah wah, I'm too lazy to
do research so you need to prove
everything to me beyond a shadow of the
doubt or I won't believe you is in
effect, saying 'I don't understand the
scientific method, and I don't know what
falsifiability means.' You and I both
know, that you can always keep saying,
'Sorry, I'm not convinced, give me more
evidence or you're wrong.' You're
welcome to say that, just don't expect us
to let you participate in meaningful
discussions if you want to play the 'How
many angels can dance on the head of a
pin.' game. -dans
\_ I'm doing no such thing. I'm actualy
asking for some reference that claims
to discredit Spencer.
\_ Backpedal away monkey boy! So you
do realize that even good
scientists can support and believe
in bad ideas. Does this mean
they've been discredited? On the
bad idea, yes, as scientists and
researchers not really. cf. the
tenured professor(s) at Berkeley
who claim AIDS isn't caused by HIV.
-dans
\_ This is especially funny considering the genius of George Dubya. |
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| csua.org/u/i54 -> www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=3e57926c-bfeb-4ff3-acf6-50c575ee996c View Larger Image Not a real alien, Crystal Graham is shown wearing an extraterrestrial costume in a 1997 contest at Roswell, New Mexico, where a UFO allegedly crashed in 1947. Paul Hellyer, 83, is calling for a public disclosure of alien technology obtained during alleged UFO crashes -- such as the mysterious 1947 incident in Roswell, New Mexico -- because he believes alien species can provide humanity with a viable alternative to fossil fuels. Mr Hellyer has been a public UFO advocate since September 2005 when he spoke at a symposium in Toronto. But with concern over global warming at an all-time high, and Canadian political parties struggling to out-green one another, Mr Hellyer said governments and the military have a responsibility to "come clean on what they know" now more than ever. "I'm not discouraging anyone from being green conscious, but I would like to see what (alien) technology there might be that could eliminate the burning of fossil fuels within a generation ... Mr Hellyer will be discussing his views at the upcoming screening of a new UFO documentary called Fastwalkers, in Toronto's De La Salle College Theatre on March 7 Mr Hellyer, a former Liberal cabinet minister, political turncoat and one-time leadership candidate for the Liberal and Conservative parties, said UFO researchers have amassed undeniable evidence that aliens have visited our planet. Due to the distance such spacecrafts would have to travel, UFOs must be equipped with some kind of advanced fuel source or propulsion system, he said. "We need to persuade governments to come clean on what they know," he said. "Some of us suspect they know quite a lot, and it might be enough to save our planet if applied quickly enough." Michael De Robertis, an astronomer at York University and and member of the Ontario Skeptics Society for Critical Inquiry, said there is "little or no compelling evidence" that we have been visited by beings from another planet. "If (Mr Hellyer) wants to broker some kind of communication, that would be great," he said. "But I think the probability that there is someone out there for him to make contact with is highly improbable." But if aliens have indeed visited Earth, there is no doubt their technical knowledge could benefit humanity, Mr De Robertis added. "To have travelled hundreds of trillions of kilometres, interstellar visitors would, at a minimum, require a civilization that is thousands -- if not millions -- of years ahead of our own. One would imagine they went through their own fossil fuel era, and that they solved it and didn't go through some kind of pollution holocaust. "There is no doubt they would have different solutions, different fuels and different energy sources." Fastwalkers claims to feature more than 30 witnesses testifying to the reality of alien visitations, including former military and government intelligence personnel. |
| csua.org/u/i4w -> www.nypost.com/seven/02262007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/not_that_simple_opedcolumnists_roy_w__spencer.htm Digg It Story Bottom February 26, 2007 -- REPORTS on the global-warming debate have now become part of our daily diet of news. Actors, musicians, politicians, columnists and even the occasional climate scientist all weigh in on how soon planetary disaster will strike, who's to blame and what we should do about it. With claims that manmade warming is anywhere from an undeniable fact to a hoax, anyone can be excused for feeling a little bit confused. The media is, almost by definition, most interested in extreme views on the issue, so reporting seldom reveals that broad scientific uncertainty still exists. In fact, a silent majority of scientists still think that global warming could end up falling anywhere between a real problem and a minor nuisance: They can see reasons for it going either way. How can different scientists look at the same atmosphere and yet come to such a wide variety of conclusions? It all depends on their level of faith in our understanding of the atmosphere. We put equations into a computer that describe the basics of how we think the atmosphere works, and then we expect the computer to predict how much warming we will get when we turn up the greenhouse gas "knob." The Earth's natural "greenhouse effect" traps infrared (heat) radiation because of water vapor, clouds, carbon dioxide and methane. You have probably heard that the greenhouse effect keeps the Earth "habitably warm." So if burning of fossil fuels keeps adding more of a greenhouse gas like carbon dioxide (CO2), the Earth should keep on warming up, right? CO2 concentrations - now running at 380 parts per million (ppm), up about 40 percent in the last century - are indeed one possible explanation for our current warmth. But we also know that our climate is a nonlinear, dynamic system - which can go through sizeable gyrations all by itself. |