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| 11/22 |
| 2007/2/26-3/1 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:45823 Activity:very high |
2/25 Oops. Gore the hypocrite.
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm
\_ On the one hand, if this surprises you, you're naive. On the other\
hand, DANG that's a lot of juice. (And gas too)
\_ We all know he's a hypocrit and that global warming is a myth.
This is exactly why I'm going to keep driving my H2 and
keep going to my church. God bless.
\_ This is the exact same strawman as people who quote fake
"liburals". It isn't funny, clever, or rhetorically useful.
Of course the irony is that this sort of intellectual dishonesty
makes you no better than the people you're ad homineming.
\_ While I don't think all this hullabaloo about global warming is
without merit I just don't can't take it seriously without real
proposals about effective ways to handle it. Scrimping and
Conserving and reducing buy only a few years, as the 10-20% you
save gets quickly made irrelevant 5% population and economic
growth. Zero carbon footprint? Shyeah, right. It won't happen
until you stop breathing, and even then you'll release some carbon
gases in the process of dying and decaying.
gases in the process of dying and decomposing.
\_ Nobody says there is a silver bullet to the problem. We already
know that.
\_ It isn't about his house or his zillions of plane flights or his
multiple SUVs or the rest of his lifestyle, per se. Yes, he's a
hypocrite but that's no big deal. The problem is that he wants to
inflict life style changes on everyone else that he's not willing
to live with for himself and his family. Paying some sort of bogus
"carbon footprint credit" doesn't make him any less wasteful, yet
he can afford to pay it for the feel good effect. 99% of the
rest of the world can't afford that so his answer for them is to
change their lifestyle. He's worth at least $50 million so a few
extra bucks for him is no big deal. Now then, if he actually
truly changed his life style in the way he advocates for everyone
else I'd be impressed. As far as Drudge goes, I don't see why
anyone gives a rat's ass what he has to say or why Gore bothered
to respond at all. The guy has a business to run. He's run it
the same way for years and it's no big deal. All his links are
either taken directly from other news sources or unsourced and
thus dismissable.
\_ A nice example of Right Wing "politics": You have lost on the
facts and lost on the message, time to smear the messenger.
Sorry guys, Karl Rove style politics doesn't work very well
anymore. America has developed immunity to your tactics.
\_ Woah! Holy crap. I'm shocked. But now, thanks to Drudges hard
hittin' journalism, I'm forced to realize that global warming is
a liberal conspiracy to subvert my precious bodily fluids, and to
give all my money to the Enterprise Institute. Thank you for saving
me, amen, and fuck you.
\_ Okay, he has a larger than average house. It uses more than
average electricity. How does it compare to comparably sized
houses? What does he use the space for? As usual, drudge runs
the gotcha without the journalism..
Gore responds:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/26/gore-responds-to-drudge
\_ That's not much of a response (too short). I was hoping that he
explains how many people live there and what goes on in the
mansion that uses so much energy. For example, I suppose a 24hr
security system for such a big mansion uses quite a bit of
energy.
\_ His answer is sufficient to demolish the claim of hypocrisy,
and is really more than a spuurious charge from drudge
deserves. Unfortunately, people still think drudge has
some amount of value. Ergo, the "short" response.
\_ No it isn't. The more "green" energy he buys, the less
there is for others.
\_ Just... wow...
\_ What, all you greenies believe everything is zero
sum, don't you?
\_ All of you assholes think a single data point
makes for the end of the debate, don't you?
\_ Ha ha ha. No, I just like to point out
hypocrisy and idiocy when it presents itself.
\_ And in outing yourself thus, you've out-
done yourself.
\_ On the one hand, if this surprises you, you're naive. On the other
hand, DANG that's a lot of juice. (And gas too)
\_ I did know that most environmental spokesholes were hypocrites,
but I didn't know about Gore in particular. -op
\_ You didn't realize that most politicians are hypocrites???
\_ Anyone who got to State office level or higher has to be.
\_ "There's no law against being a hypocrite a few times in your
life and this industry is built on hypocrisy." -Matt Drudge
\_ The latest PG&E bill for my 4bd 2ba house with 6 people was $67.
I have electric stove.
\- I think the "i pay to reduce my carbon footprint to
zero" is sort of a bogus reply. That's basically the
"ultrarich liberal" response that "as long as i am
willing to pay higher taxes, i should be able to not
change my lifestyle".
change my lifestyle". i believe in internalizing costs
but it's understood that that is a complicated matter
given it's regressive nature. i'll leave it at that.
\_ Is it still bogus if you first lower your footprint as
much as is practicable? This sounds like the converse
of the "liberals are pro-choice cuz they like killing
babies" talking point.
\_ If you're generating co2, you're generating co2. Saying,
"I reduced my waste a bit and spend more on green stuff
because I'm rich and can easily afford it" doesn't cut
it, no.
\_ Do you know what carbon-offset means?
\_ Yes, I do. Planting 5 trees in Kenya does not
offset each of Gore's trans continental private
flights to pick up an award. It is feel goodism.
Besides, exactly what has he and his family actually
done to 'carbon-offset' their life style?
\_ You're making up numbers. 5 trees in Kenya? What
if it were 50 trees? 500? At what point would
you not call it feel-goodism any more? Gore says
he's carbon neutral. You have no evidence to the
contrary. For now, I'm gonna go with... him.
\_ I'm not making up anything. Here's all the
numbers, with prices included. And you get to
calculate your 'carbon footprint' along the
way so you know exactly how many trees you need
to plant in Kenya: http://www.carbonfootprint.com
Now then, as I said, what exactly has Gore or
his family done to offset their carbon foot-
print? The weight is on their shoulders to
prove it, not on mine to prove they aren't.
They are the ones making the claims. I'm just
some dude who doesn't spend $30k a year to
heat my house or fly around the world on
private jets all the time. The answer is easy
to figure out: they do nothing but talk about
it a lot. And fly private jets around the
world to tell other people how to live and
collect little statues on TV.
\- the issue isnt is he spending enough $ to
offset the "carbon footprint". the point is
the rich can pay their way out while the
poorer people have to make lifestyle changes.
say we had a draft, do you think it is defensible
to pay your way out of it? well then it really
isnt a draft then is it. or say you could pay
your way out of jail terms. or say you could
buy your way into a college. yes i know all of
these things happen, but it is a little
disturbing and we should be aware of the
disparate impact. mccain could hve gotten out
of vietnam service via a legitimate and legal
channel. we respect the fact that he served
never the less.
never the less. maybe we should not expect that
gore or bush wont use political connections to
get thir kinds INTO harvard and yale, but i do
respect that mccain didnt use his political
connection to get OUT of the hanoi hilton.
say we had a draft, do you think it is
defensible to pay your way out of it? well
then it really isnt a draft then is it. or say
you could pay your way out of jail terms. or
say you could buy your way into a college. yes
i know all of these things happen, but it is a
little disturbing and we should be aware of
the disparate impact. mccain could hve gotten
out of vietnam service via a legitimate and
legal channel. we respect the fact that he
served never the less. maybe we should not
expect that gore or bush wont use political
connections to get thir kinds INTO harvard and
yale, but i do respect that mccain didnt use
his political connection to get OUT of the
hanoi hilton. similarly i respect how people
like WBUFFET live.
\_ Great point. However, this is why countries
are expected to buy into carbon credit
programs as well. I'm not so disgusted
by Haves taking positive action unavailable
to Have nots...
The parallels you cite all have either a
direct benefit or direct exculpation to
the Have in question. As carbon costs are
not currently monetarily/legally realized,
I think the lead by example is noteworthy.
\- i'm trying to cut down on my motd cycles
but this is a matter i am kind of
interested in. the international analog
is the us vs china, india, and brazil.
it will be an interesting question
how the costs of dealing with enviro
issues are distributed. it may not be
unreasonable that the us pays and india
and china and brazil change behavior
but i have a feeling this negotiation
wont go very smoothly.
\_ How do you manage this? Mine is over $150 and I don't even
have air/heat or any appliances running other than 1
computer (iMac) and 2 (relatively new) refrigerators. I am
calling bullshit unless you live somewhere like Washington
state where power is cheap.
\_ No, I live in Fremont. The energy rate in my last bill was
$1.13 per therm of gas and $0.11 per kWh of electricity. Do
you have an electric cloths dryer? I have a gas dryer and I
line-dry my cloths on sunny days. I also wrapped an
insulation blanket on my water heater, and set its thermostat
such that the water is just hot enough but not any hotter. I
completely power off (not energy- saving mode) my PC and
monitor when not in use. I have only one 7yr old fridge. I
use mostly fluorescent blubs and tubes, and we turn lights
off when not in use. I have double-pane windows and we wear
jackets at home when it's cold, so we use the gas furnace
only occasionally.
\_ No, I live in Fremont. Do you have an electric cloths dryer?
I have a gas dryer and I line-dry my cloths on sunny days.
I also wrapped an insulation blanket on my water heater, and
I set its thermostat such that the water is just hot enough
but not any hotter. I completely power off (not energy-
saving mode) my PC and monitor when not in use. I have only
one 7yr old fridge. I use mostly fluorescent blubs and
tubes, and we turn lights off when not in use. I have
double-pane windows and we wear jackets at home when it's
cold, so we use the gas furnace only occasionally.
only occasionally. -- PP
p.s. I also turn off the tap when applying soap or shampoo and
when I'm brushing my teeth. This is more for conserving water
than gas energy, though.
\_ Your 7 year old fridge is 90% of your bill, wastrel!
\_ It was an energy efficient model when I bought it in
2000.
2000. -- PP
\_ Welcome to 2007. My Buick was energy efficient in
1963 when it was made but not when I drove it in
1986.
\_ I have a gas dryer. I use 20-30 kWh per day, depending
on the season. My last bill was for $178.68 and 903
kWh, which is more than usual. That is for two people
who both work and are gone from 9-8pm every day. How
the hell can 6 people have a $67 bill? My taxes are
$13, which means you are using ~$54 of electricity
at $.11 kWh, which means you use half the energy
I do. For six people?! I don't even watch TV, use
a microwave, etc. I do like to turn lights on at night
from 8pm until midnight. Crazy me. Do you use candles?
\_ I don't understand your electric bill then. My family
(me, wife, 2 kids) have an electric dryer, and a gas
heater. Our last PG&E bill was ~$80, which is HUGE for
us. Mostly due to not being able to dry our clothes
outside, and heating the house to a toasty 65 degrees.
Are you heating the house all day and night, even when
you aren't there? We only heat when we're home and
not in bed. This is in Livermore, CA. -jrleek (!pp)
\_ "I don't even have air/heat". I have a gravity
(gas) furnace which doesn't use electricity
at all. How many kWHs did you use for that $80 bill?
BTW, I read that the average US household uses
934 kWh/month, which is less than I use (usually
700-900).
\_ Ok, the $88 bill was both gas and electric.
Electric: 170 kWh, $19.48, $.1146 per kWh
Gas: 58 Therms, $69.30, $1.948 per Therm -jrleek
\_ 170 kwH?! A refrigerator by itself uses
100 kWh. You mean to say that you use 70
kWh for all of your other electricity
needs with 4 of you and an electric dryer?
Do you go to bed at sundown?
\_ New Poster: I am one person, I cook at home
every day, I leave a laptop on pretty much
24/7, I am more nocturnal than most and
yet my last gas+electricity bill was < $10.
\_ Er? Are you getting some sort of
discounted bill on some special program?
Just your laptop and some light cooking
would cost more than that. Are you
messing with the meter?
\_ A guy here at work only pays $5 a mo.
-jrleek
\_ I think that this is impossible
with taxes.
\_ I have no idea how many kWh my fridge uses
but I am not living a bizarrely ascetic life.
I go to bed at about 10pm. We are careful
with electricty usage, turn off the computer,
unplug the entertainment stuff when we aren't
using it, etc. But that stuff is chicken
feed compared to how much more you're using.
From the replies here it seems like you're
using a lot of electricity and not getting a
lot out of it. Your bill is similar to what
my dad pays, and he has a well for his water
(electric water pump), and runs 6 computers
all the time. You're using a LOT of juice.
You're the odd one here. Maybe your wife has
a secret server farm in the basement. -jrleek
\_ You'd think I'm the odd one, except
that stats show that ~900 kWh is
pretty typical household usage.
\_ Yes, but the typical household doesn't
claim to have no heat/AC, a gas dryer,
no TV, and no one home most of the
day. Also, CA has much lower per captia
energy useage, just over half. -jrleek
CFL bulbs, and no one home most of the
day. Also, CA has significanly lower
per captia energy useage-jrleek
http://www.energy.ca.gov/electricity/us_percapita_electricity_2003.html
\_ Well, I guess I need to invest
in a kill-a-watt, then, because
there's very little running.
\_ That sounds like a good idea. I'd
be really interested in what you
figure out. You could also check
your meter to see total useage.
Also, do you use incandecent
bulbs? Just curious. |
| 11/22 |
|
| www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm Tennessee Center for Policy Research, an independent, nonprofit and nonpartisan research organization committed to achieving a freer, more prosperous Tennessee through free market policy solutions, issued a press release late Monday: Last night, Al Gores global-warming documentary, An Inconvenient Truth, collected an Oscar for best documentary feature, but the Tennessee Center for Policy Research has found that Gore deserves a gold statue for hypocrisy. located in the posh Belle Meade area of Nashville, consumes more electricity every month than the average American household uses in an entire year, according to the Nashville Electric Service (NES). In his documentary, the former Vice President calls on Americans to conserve energy by reducing electricity consumption at home. The average household in America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, according to the Department of Energy. In 2006, Gore devoured nearly 221,000 kWhmore than 20 times the national average. Last August alone, Gore burned through 22,619 kWhguzzling more than twice the electricity in one month than an average American family uses in an entire year. As a result of his energy consumption, Gores average monthly electric bill topped $1,359. Since the release of An Inconvenient Truth, Gores energy consumption has increased from an average of 16,200 kWh per month in 2005, to 18,400 kWh per month in 2006. Gores extravagant energy use does not stop at his electric bill. Natural gas bills for Gores mansion and guest house averaged $1,080 per month last year. As the spokesman of choice for the global warming movement, Al Gore has to be willing to walk to walk, not just talk the talk, when it comes to home energy use, said Tennessee Center for Policy Research President Drew Johnson. In total, Gore paid nearly $30,000 in combined electricity and natural gas bills for his Nashville estate in 2006. |
| thinkprogress.org/2007/02/26/gore-responds-to-drudge Veterans Gore Responds To Drudge's Latest Hysterics The right-wing is angry that Al Gore has won so much public attention and goodwill for his work on global warming. calculate their carbon footprint and try to reduce it as much as possible. Once they have done so, he then advocates that they purchase offsets, as the Gore's do, to bring their footprint down to zero. It's the latest in a series of desperate attacks by Drudge to paint Gore as a hypocrite. JPG headline These are the lengths that climate skeptics must go to suppress action on global warming. There is no meaningful debate within the scientific community, so the right-wing busies itself with talk about how much electricity Al Gore's house uses -- and even then they distort the truth. You fund wind and farm methane projects to put clean electricity on the grid to offset your own dirty electricity use. Eventually there will be a large clean energy industry built. Trumpeting the amount of energy Gore's household consumes might look like red meat to hungry cons, but if that energy is largely solar-generated, and the rest generated from green sources, then that slab of right-wing-outrage calories doesn't look like such a nutritious meal anymore, does it? When politicians make movies, it is called "Propaganda." Comment by Patrick1 -- February 26, 2007 @ 6:58 pm He's not presently in office, dipshit. As much as you hate that he was right, you still know it. At least now we know where you trolls got this talking point. Do any of you fundies have a single thought of your own that doesn't contain the word "hate"? Drudge can, of course, say whatever he likes -- however, as Hubert Humphrey once said, "the right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." People are entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, but these are not equivalent to facts. There's no question, of course, that some people will believe this claim without requiring any proof -- but this is most likely because these people are already predisposed to think poorly of Gore and prefer to believe that this claim is true regardless of whether it is or not because it confirms their prejudice (otherwise known as negative halo effect). If Drudge can't provide any hard evidence to support this claim and he knows it, then he's deliberately lying for no other reason than malice -- and last I heard, that's called libel and that's called a crime! Comment by Patrick1 -- February 26, 2007 @ 7:08 pm You have to list credible climatologists - not astrologists or Michael Crichton type Science Fiction Writers. You find five credible climatologists and post links to prove they aren't on board with Global Warming as of today, then we'll discuss... You need to explain what facts you got and HOW they undermine the rest of the worlds scientists. Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr patrick thinks that facts are part of the"liberal" conspiricy. Patrick, just because you can find one or two charlatans who are accepting money from MRC to obfuscate the issue doesn't mean that there isn't consensus on this. And, just because Brent Bozelle says something is a lie doesn't make it a lie. All through the 60's and 70's, I could have cited scientist after scientist who would claim there were no correlations between lung cancer and tobacco smoking. If you're getting your info from them (and you are) you are getting it from people who are paid by industry to produce industry-friendly information. If Drudge's story distorts the electricity use at Algores house, than can thinkprogress tell us how much he factually used? I don't think that a bunch of Hollywood elites constitutes a "consensus". But then I guess in some circles "facts" really aren't necessary. The founding fathers of the USA were liberals pushing liberty against authoritarian rule. As they made clear in their Declaration of Independance they tried to get along with the authoritarians but they simply were not treated in kind. The west has been turning away from religious dogma backed authoritarianism and the middle east is still deep into it. And the American right wants to join the middle east in their way of life. If Drudge's piece distorts the truth about how much electricity Algore uses, can thinkprogress tell us how much he factually does? I question wether a bunch of Hollywood elites contitutes a "consensus". I like how the right wing sheep are able to accept every statement this administration feeds them as the god given truth even though there is not one ounce of fact or truth behind it. Yet, once liberal start making statements and supporting them with facts and studies they are lying. FACT: Matt Drudge does not believe in global warming, yep, he stated on his radio show a couple of weeks ago that he doesn't believe it is happening, not man made, nor by the cycle of the planet, he just doesn't buy it'. His website traffic is another FRAUD - His refresher goes off quickly, numerous times to the same visitor, counting a unique visitors visit' many times over. He claims 10 million visitors a day, I say its around 800,000 unique vistors a day - tops! If anyone still doubts all the science presented in Gore's movie, it must be because of the couple jabs at Bush in the movie. So a brainwashed rightie will automatically dismiss THE ENTIRE THING just because they think it is actually a hit job on Bush. religion is based on fantasy and emotion Excellent definition of global warming. Comment by Patrick1 -- February 26, 2007 @ 7:26 pm How the hell do you relate religion and global warming you crazy fu*k? What Drudge misses is that Al Gore's movie will result in hundreds of thousands or even millions of other people reducing their energy consumption. If they reduce that just 10%, Al Gore, Arianna Huffington, and Laurie David could have ten times as many mansions and fly Gulfstream V's around the world and we'd still help prevent global warming. Fact: during the coldest time period our planet has seen, the atmosphere had 4000 ppm (parts per million) CO2 than our current levels(370 ppm). CO2 is the greenhouse gas we are told is responsible for trapping the heat, in turn causing the warming. Fact: Plant life thrives on high levels of CO2, making them bigger, stronger, more heat tolerant, and more productive. Fact: for the past 10 years or so the sun has been going through a solar maximum cycle. Actually, our planet has experienced longer periods of warm than cold, a difference of, conservatively speaking about 90% warm to 10% cold. As far as the ice caps go, they have been water(liquid) more of the time than they have been ice. All of this information is out there, you just have to do the research. html If the people on the right are brainwashed sheep, what are the people on the left? You might find that thou you thought you were, your just not right about this. What Drudge didn't miss is that it's okay for AlGores horse to crap in the street because He can afford the guy in a clown suit to follow Him around with a shovel. You might find that thou you thought you were, your just not right about this. Comment by algore -- February 26, 2007 @ 7:47 pm You step away from the keyboard... It was from living in it that I gave up my religious conservative upbringing and CHOSE to be a liberal because it's a kinder and more peaceful way of life. What Drudge didn't miss is that it's okay for AlGores horse to crap in the street because He can afford the guy in a clown suit to follow Him around with a shovel. Comment by beefeater -- February 26, 2007 @ 7:47 pm Easy to criticize then to be productive isn't it. No matter what Al Gore does, he knowingly made himself a target in order to bring attention to a serious issue. If Al Gore didn't have a horse, it'd be his dog, if he didn't have a dog, it'd be his own fecal matter. In the end, ask yourself what have you done to make the world a better place. I'll bet they are used to buy copies of An Inconvenient Truth to hand out to school kids. Comment by mandolin -- February 26, 2007 @ 7:55 pm No way... we can't even get adequate funding in schools for textbooks... so Gore is giving them to the students for free (actually they are giving DVDs o... |
| www.energy.ca.gov/electricity/us_percapita_electricity_2003.html Go to Content | Go to Page Updated Information | Go to Footer Welcome to the California Energy Commission Striped Image Section US Per Capita Electricity Use By State in 2003 US Per Capita Electricity Use By State in 2003 State Rank State Name kWh (million) Estimated Population Per Capita Electricity Use (kWh) 1 Wyoming 13,254 501,915 26,407 2 Kentucky 85,220 4,116,780 20,701 District of Columbia 10,946 557,846 19,622 3 Alabama 83,844 4,501,862 18,624 4 South Carolina 77,054 4,146,753 18,582 5 Louisiana 77,769 4,490,380 17,319 6 Tennessee 97,457 5,841,585 16,683 7 North Dakota 10,461 633,051 16,525 8 Indiana 100,468 6,196,269 16,214 9 Arkansas 43,108 2,726,166 15,813 10 Mississippi 45,544 2,880,793 15,810 11 West Virginia 28,297 1,810,347 15,631 12 Idaho 21,219 1,368,111 15,510 13 Delaware 12,600 817,827 15,407 14 Nebraska 25,857 1,738,013 14,877 15 Texas 322,686 22,099,136 14,602 16 North Carolina 121,335 8,422,375 14,406 17 Oklahoma 50,428 3,504,917 14,388 18 Georgia 123,677 8,746,849 14,140 19 Iowa 41,207 2,941,362 14,009 20 Montana 12,825 917,885 13,972 21 Virginia 101,510 7,383,387 13,748 22 Kansas 36,735 2,724,224 13,485 23 Nevada 30,132 2,241,700 13,442 24 Ohio 152,230 11,431,748 13,316 25 Missouri 74,270 5,718,717 12,987 26 Maryland 71,259 5,512,477 12,927 27 Florida 217379 16993369 12,792 28 Washington 78,134 6,131,131 12,744 29 Oregon 45,213 3,562,681 12,691 30 Minnesota 63,087 5,061,662 12,464 31 Wisconsin 67,242 5,471,792 12,289 United States 11,997 32 South Dakota 9,080 764,599 11,876 33 Arizona 64,080 5,577,784 11,488 34 Pennsylvania 140,369 12,364,930 11,352 35 Michigan 108,877 10,078,146 10,803 36 Illinois 136,248 12,649,940 10,771 37 New Mexico 19,330 1,879,252 10,286 38 Colorado 46,495 4,548,071 10,223 39 Utah 23,860 2,378,696 10,031 40 Maine 11,972 1,308,245 9,151 41 Connecticut 31,830 3,485,881 9,131 42 New Jersey 76,383 8,640,028 8,841 43 Massachusetts 55,514 6,417,565 8,650 44 Vermont 5,352 619,092 8,645 45 Alaska 5,564 648,510 8,580 46 New Hampshire 10,973 1,287,594 8,522 47 Hawaii 10,391 1,248,200 8,325 48 New York 144,045 19,228,031 7,491 49 Rhode Island 7,797 1,075,729 7,248 50 California 238,710 35,456,602 6,732 Sources: Population: http://www.census.gov/popest/states/NST-ann-est.html Kilowatt-Hours: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/states/sep_fuel/html/fuel_es.html Back to Main Page | Commission Homepage | Site Index | Search Site | Glossary | Links | Contact Us Page Updated: Unavailable Go to Content | Go to Page Updated Information | Go to Footer |
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