Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 45710
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2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/25    

2007/2/11-13 [Industry/Jobs] UID:45710 Activity:high
2/11    So apparently minimum wage increases do in fact result in layoffs.
        http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0210biz-teenwork0210.html
                \- yeah, and vaccines kills people
        \_ So do you still think the Iraq occupation was the right thing?
              \_you are an idiot.
              \_ your an idiot.
                 \_ Is this supposed to be funny?
        \_ But they do not result in layoffs of unoin workers, which is why
           unions are so keen on pushing minimum wage increases.  This is not
           new.
           \_ Many union contracts are written such that the base wage is a
              multiple of the minimum wage.  Thus, raising the minimum wage
              has nothing to do with the working poor they claimed to be
              helping and everything to do with a *huge* gimme to unions.
              \_ Exactly.  Another reason is that raising minimum wage makes
                 hiring unskilled workers more costly, and hiring skilled
                 workers not as costly in comparison.  So employers will be
                 more likely to hire skilled workers, which again doesn't help
                 the working poor they claim to be helping.  -- PP
                 \_ Did you even read the article? The layoffs are amongst
                    teenagers, not the "working poor." In fact, it implies
                    that older and more experienced workers were becoming
                    more valuable. This is a good thing, imho. Also, it is
                    forcing workplaces to become more efficient, which is
                    the best way to improve standards of living. Without
                    knowing what the unemployment rate is before and after,
                    you are not really measuring much. Maybe all those
                    laid off fast food workers found more economically
                    prodcutive activity.
                    productive activity.
                    \_ No one said the working poor were laid off.  Yet.  Two
                       things were said: raising the minimum wage is a gimme
                       to unions, and that teens are getting axed.  I do like
                       the idea that firing people improves their lives.  That
                       sure worked well for employees in the 2001-2004 era.
                       \_ "... nothing to do with the working poor they..."
                          Someone sure said that. Give me some real stats
                          and not just anecdotes, otherwise you are just
                          talking out your ass.
                          \_ Quote them please.  Stats: there are no stats that
                             demonstrate the legal fact that union contracts
                             are based on a multiple of the minimum wage.  It
                             is a legal fact, not a numeric statistical event.
                             You really need to keep up with what is being
                             said, especially if you're going to accuse other
                             people of "talking out your ass".
                             \_ Scroll up 20 lines. I am not going to repeat
                                something that was posted three paragraphs
                                ago. Do you have a reading comprehension
                                problem?
                                \_ You spent more time talking about how you're
                                   too cool/smart to quote than it would have
                                   taken to quote.  Except, oh wait, there is
                                   really nothing there for you to quote that
                                   backs up what you said.  Quote it.
        \_ Minor quibble here: telling teens you're cutting back shifts and
           hours constitutes "layoffs"? I thought you had to employ someone
           fulltime in order to lay them off.
           \_ Okay, whatever: ^layoffs^hour reductions
           \_ Okay, whatever: ^layoffs^reduced employment
           \_ You ever been laid off a real job?  On the way down, some
              companies will cut hours or force lower wages (which obviously
              isn't possible in this case), before finally cutting for real.
              And how is it that cutting back a shift isn't a layoff/firing
              if it was your shift that got cut?  No job, but good worker =
              laid off.
              \_ In answer to your question, yes. They gave me a severance
                 package and paid my health insurance for two months. As I
                 said before, I thought you had to employ someone fulltime
                 in order to lay them off.
                 \_ Layoff has simply become the nice way to say "fired". It's
                    also used in the same way as it used to be.
                 \_ If you are working 30 hours per week and your employer
                    tells you he doesn't need you anymore, then you've
                    been laid off. What does full-time have to do with
                    anything?
                    \_ Nothing.  I also think it's funny that he thinks firing
                       people is good for them.
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www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0210biz-teenwork0210.html
Most Popular * Change Type Size * * * * New wage boost puts squeeze on teenage workers across Arizona Employers are cutting back hours, laying off young staffers Chad Graham The Arizona Republic Feb. That's certainly not the case under the state's new minimum-wage law that went into effect last month. Some Valley employers, especially those in the food industry, say payroll budgets have risen so much that they're cutting hours, instituting hiring freezes and laying off employees. advertisement And teens are among the first workers to go. Mark Messner, owner of Pepi's Pizza in south Phoenix, estimates he has employed more than 2,000 high school students since 1990. But he plans to lay off three teenage workers and decrease hours worked by others. Of his 25-person workforce, roughly 75 percent are in high school. "I've had to go to some of my kids and say, 'Look, my payroll just increased 13 percent,' " he said. "We go to great lengths to hang on to our high school workers, but there are a lot of kids who come in and get one check in their pocket and feel like they're living large and out the door they go," he said. "We never get our return on investment when that happens." For years, economists have debated how minimum-wage increases impact the teenage workforce. The Employment Policies Institute in Washington, which opposed the recent increases, cited 2003 data by Federal Reserve economists showing a 10 percent increase caused a 2 percent to 3 percent decrease in employment. It also cited comments by notedeconomist Milton Friedman, who maintained that high teen unemployment rates were largely the result of minimum-wage laws. "After a wage hike, employers seek to take fewer chances on individuals with little education or experience," one institute researcher told lawmakers in 2004. Tom Kelly, owner of Mary Coyle Ol' Fashion Ice Cream Parlor in Phoenix, voted for the minimum-wage increase. The store, which employs mostly teen workers, has cut back on hours and has not replaced a couple of workers who quit. Kelly raised the wages of workers who already made above minimum wage to ensure pay scales stayed even. As a result, "we have to be a lot more efficient" and must increase menu prices, he said. Liliana Hernandez brings home noticeably more under the new law. The 18-year-old, who attends Metro Tech High School in Phoenix and works part time at Central High School, is saving the extra money, maybe to put towards buying a used car. Hernandez said she deserves the raise just like any other Arizona worker even if she still lives with her parents. "I'm doing the best I can and working hard like everyone else," she said. In the months leading up to last November's vote, advocates of the new law maintained that it would help Arizona create a "living wage" for some of the poorest workers. The Economic Policy Institute estimated that 145,000 Arizonans would receive a pay raise. At one press conference, a mother described how she was unable to afford basic school supplies for her son. Opponents, however, said there was little talk about teenage workers. "Everyone wanted to focus on the other aspects of the minimum-wage campaign," said Michelle Bolton, Arizona state director of the National Federation of Independent Business. "Workers affected by the minimum-wage increase are less likely to be supporting a family than the typical Arizona worker," it stated. John Weischedel, a senior at the East Valley Institute of Technology in Mesa, knows he is lucky to be making $8 per hour at an auto dealership and learning technical skills. So are most of his friends who make $9 or more per hour while still attending high school. After the minimum-wage law went into effect, "a couple of my friends got laid off - they worked in fast food," he said. "They're going to wait until they're out of high school to find other jobs." Next Current Page:1 of 16 Your comments I see we have some Hillary socialists on here. Someday they will wake up and get half of a brain and realize that wages go up with a strong economy and competition. Force wages up and you will destroy the economy and then wages stagnate. Interest rates were around 20% and wages were basically frozen or cut. Socialist Dems want to spread the wealth, everyone gets the same no matter how hard you have worked. This way people become dependent on the Government so they can have an excuse to raise taxes and then get the votes of all who depend on them. As long as the druggie depends on you for the drugs he will do anything for you. Force people to do something they don't want to do and it will backfire every time. But since you asked me a direct question, I will give you a direct answer. The reason I would't want to be a Liberal on Judgement day is for the most part they are anti-God and anti-@#$%& and tend to be atheists. If you need me to start quoting scripture for you on why denying @#$%& is bad, I will be more than happy to do that. The only area I'm a Prophet in is knowing how lame liberals are with their arguments and which direction they will always take them in. So if you want to call me a political prophet, I'm fine with that. If you've read my other posts, you know I'm classified as a minority by the federal government. I only care that I'm an American and live in the greatest country God has put on this planet. I'm begining to think you have a reading comprehension problem. So since you need clarification on why I said that, that was a slap on your man hood. I think you are only half a man and should come back when your you know what have descended. For clarification, I'm saying this next statement because I know you'll come back with a girls reaction and it's been funny seeing you have your hissy fits. Since you lied and said you were leaving a long time ago, why don't you just leave now and go watch Brokeback Mountain. Don't answer too quickly, I want to get a snack while I read your next emotional outburst. Oh, by the way, you're still a coward for not answering any of my questions. Among them: 1) "Businesses are not irreparably harmed if they don't pay a living wage". GM and Ford (who started the idea of a fair day's pay and an 8-hour day) are inexorably sliding into bankruptcy for having paid what by Detroit and UAW standards were a living wage, a living health insurance policy, and a living retirement plan. They are being underpriced and outsold by auto factories in places like Alabama, which pay their workers what are, by Alabama standards, living wages, insurance plans, and retirement packages. I used to live in a condo complex across from a black family. He arranged rap concerts, she was a Montessori instructor. Their oldest son drove a Toyota, their middle kid drove a go-kart up and down the condo parking lot, and their youngest, in kindergarten, had a mouthful of stainless steel caps on his baby teeth, courtesy of Medicaid. At least in Texas, healthcare is cheaper than a toothbrush. Far from it, since sloth is on the list of seven deadly sins that afflicts mankind, being called lazy shows that one is all too human. Having said all that, I don't believe low wages are what causes much of what we call poverty. Rather, many people don't bother to handle money prudently. Instead of furnishing their apartment from Goodwill, they buy shiny new stuff from their local rent-to-buy, keep it until it's paid for, risking losing their entire investment to the repo guy if they miss a payment and paying far more than what it's worth. They pay for a wide-screen H D TV with a payday loan, paying an annual rate of over 400%. After the TV, there's not enough to replace that bald tire on the car, so when it blows on the freeway they pay a hundred bucks to have it towed home, then take a taxicab to and from the grocery store. When I read sob story after sob story about people who make more than the minimum wage and still have managed to max out all six credit cards, it seems to me that low wages is not the problem. There must be a reason why you wouldn't want to be a liberal on Judgment Day ... you obviously have that knowledge, so you're obviously a prophet. The only thing you should feel sorry for, Prop...