Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 45462
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2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2006/12/18-21 [Reference/Military] UID:45462 Activity:low
12/17   Hey, no problem with registering your guns.  Unless of course a paper
        happens to publish the list.
        http://csua.org/u/hqs
        \_ A newspaper gathered and printed public info and you're upset?
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

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csua.org/u/hqs -> www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061210/NEWS01/612100348/1018/NEWS02
Site=BH&Date=20061210&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=612100348&Ref=AR&Pr ofile=1018&MaxW=250 Elizabeth Orozco/The Journal News Confiscated pistols in the evidence room at Westchester County police headquarters. Westchester looks to put county police in charge of pistol permits (Original publication: December 10, 2006) Police have lost track of thousands of registered handguns because there's no system in place to keep tabs on the weapons of state pistol permit holders who die, The Journal News has found. The guns are a symptom of a larger administrative black hole brought on by outdated records and reliance on an "honor system'' requiring families to turn in weapons on their own after a licensed gun owner has died. "These laws were set up in the 1930s and we've accumulated more than 12 million records since then, with no real way of knowing how many are still valid,'' said Lt. County clerks can't be sure which permits are still active, because no one is officially notified when a permit holder dies. State police say they are the repository for all New York pistol records. But when the newspaper requested a list of local permit holders, the state police couldn't produce it - the names aren't computerized by county. The situation has prompted Westchester to push for a streamlined process making county police the sole agency responsible for issuing and enforcing pistol permit applications. Rockland officials have instituted their own policies to try to keep better tabs on handguns, with admittedly limited results. And in Putnam, officials are only now updating files so old that some are still on index cards. The county isn't even sure exactly how many permit holders live there, estimating it at 12,000 to 14,000. "What's in the penal law would work if it were enforced,'' said Rockland County Clerk Paul Piperato. "Law enforcement has no real way of knowing if someone dies, which makes it difficult to ensure that records are up-to-date. Westchester and Rockland alone have more than 30,000 permit holders, with most owning an average of two or more pistols. The permit lists restrictions on what the gun owner may do, such as keep the gun at his home or place of business or transport it to a target range, up to allowing the weapon to be carried concealed in public. Officials in the three Lower Hudson Valley counties agree that the vast majority of pistol permit holders are law-abiding citizens legally exercising their constitutional right to keep arms. But they are largely left on their own once their permits are approved. Westchester has tried to keep better tabs by requiring that permits be recertified every five years. Today, six years after it became law, some 13,000 permit holders have failed to re-register. George Pataki sought to make the five-year recertification a requirement across the state; The real soft spot in the pistol permit system is exposed when a licensed gun owner dies. If not, the weapons must be surrendered to "an appropriate official" such as local police, or "the superintendent of state police." Those agencies may hold weapons up to two years - allowing the estate time to sell them or transfer them to an active permit holder - before disposing of them. Violation of the law is a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine. "I'm not sure that most people are even aware of the law, or if anyone would make it a priority two weeks after a spouse or loved one dies,'' said Westchester County Public Safety Commissioner Thomas Belfiore. County and state agencies are rarely notified of a death, and town clerks who keep death certificates aren't required to notify county or police officials. Without death records, pistol license clerks have no way to flag gun permits that are no longer valid or to alert police that the guns have not been turned in. "It does seem like a weak spot, and I'm sure it's led to guns ending up in the streets,'' said Jackie Kuhls, executive director of New Yorkers Against Gun Violence. "Other than the town clerk notifying us of people dying, I don't know of any way to fix it," said Piperato, the Rockland county clerk. "Someone may move out of state, brought their weapons with them and never reported their change of residency," Miner said. And some officials said that, as worrisome as the issue is, it is not the biggest hazard facing law enforcement agencies today. "I'd consider it a problem, but I don't know that it's an overwhelming problem,'' Westchester's Belfiore said. The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, a nationwide, nonpartisan group, gave New York a B+ grade. That puts the state behind A- states such as Connecticut, New Jersey and Illinois, but ahead of states such as Pennsylvania, Texas and Florida, which got grades of D+, D- and F+, respectively. "In general, New York has been very willing to take an honest look at how to combat gun violence and to not worry about the ideological attack that some lobbying groups will level," said center spokesman Zach Ragbourn. Obtaining a pistol permit in Westchester, Rockland and Putnam counties is relatively simple, assuming you have a clean criminal record and solid references. "Basically, I just wait now," said Peter Williams of New City, who recently applied for a permit so he could target practice. "I'm obviously getting background checks and things like that. As of right now, I'm scheduled for a firearms safety course at the end of December, which is mandatory." In Westchester, a nine-member pistol permit bureau composed of six police officers and three civilians is in charge of background checks. Rockland has Lowther, the county's designated pistol clerk. The entire process hinges on the initial application and, in some counties, the recertification of legal gun owners. Enforcement and record keeping are inherently lax because of manpower shortages and uncertainty over who is ultimately responsible. New York also does not have an easily accessible, statewide database of pistol permit holders. That means police officers confronting a suspect or responding to a domestic call are unable to check if they are about to come face-to-face with a licensed gun owner. Record keeping The state police Pistol Permit Bureau, established in 1936, bills itself as the repository for all gun information in New York. On its Web site, the bureau notes that all records "are forwarded to the Pistol Permit Bureau for entry into a master database maintained by the NYSP," or New York State Police. The site goes on to say that "documents are filed by county and type of transaction." However, when The Journal News filed a Freedom of Information request for a list of Westchester, Rockland and Putnam permit holders, it was turned down. Laurie Wagner, the state police records officer, replied in writing that "a search of our files failed to locate any records responsive to your request. Records of this agency are not filed or kept with respect to the terms and/or categories as set forth in your request." Miner, the state police spokesman, said that the department does have computerized records but that those were established for law enforcement purposes and consist of statewide lists organized by last name and handgun serial numbers. He said there are separate records arranged by county, but those are kept in paper files, not in a database. "That's the problem: There's nothing computerized by county," Miner said. "We may change the wording on the Web site, because it does appear to be misleading." The Journal News obtained lists of Westchester and Rockland permit holders from clerks through requests under the Freedom of Information Law. Putnam, however, was unable to fulfill the request because the records are kept in paper files, not on a computer database. The Putnam office is attempting to update the files and entering them into a computer, a process that could be complete early next year, said First Deputy County Clerk Michael Bartolotti. Bartolotti said that only after the list is compiled will the records be purged for permit holders who have died or moved away, something the county has not thoroughly done in several years. "What we're in the process of doing r...