11/8    What stops this from happening? JoeL decides he wants more than his
        seniority and chair position.  He wants to be majority leader and have
        final say about what goes into every senate bill or he'll caucus with
        the R and switch control back.
        \- because then some marginal R might switch to D in return for other
           privilages. when yoyu have this knife edge balance, this is a
           real problem. it is a problem in parliamentar systems, it was
           privilages. when you have this knife edge balance, this is a
           real problem. it is a problem in parliamentary systems, it was
           a problem when JEEM JEFFORDS switched ... it's also a generic
           economic problem [look for "hold out problem"].
           economic problem [look for "hold out problem"]. insitutions
           deal with or mitigate them in various way ... usually by
           evolving norms or agreeing to bylaws and such.
           \_ What marginal r?  Joe isn't a D.  He can do what he wants and
              go where he'll get the best deal.  That's how politics works.
              There are no bylaws or agreements in place to stop this.
              [hey thanks whoever over wrote this, please dont]
        \_ i hate JoeL mostly because he torpedoed the GAAP and other
           financial reforms right after Enron. sigh...
           \_ He was also one of the leaders of "OMG violent video games! Won't
              someone please THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"
              \_ I lost respect for Hillary over that, too.  Not just because
                 it's knee-jerk and reactionary, but because it shows they
                 aren't in touch with modern America... who plays video games..
                 aren't in touch with modern America... who play video games..
                 as ADULTS.
                 \_ Not too many people over 30 are playing games as
                    adults. I know a few, but they are freaks. This is
                    definitely not the norm for 'modern America'.
                    \_ Average gamer age is over 30 last I heard.
                       \_ I read something a while ago that "average gamer
                          age" is skewed by all the Madden/whatever sports
                          game players, who don't consider themselves
                          "gamers".  I mean, it's just sports, right?  -John
                       \_ What defines a 'gamer'? If I play Playstation
                          5x per year does that make me a 'gamer'?
                          \_ Playing video games.
                             \_ Yes, but how often? If I play once per
                                year am I a gamer? That's about how much
                                I play. I don't consider myself a gamer
                                based on that.
                                \_ No, no - you're a gamer you freakin'
                                   cheese-eating, non-wife-screwing, slacker,
                                   kids-ignoring, Everquest-playing zombie!
                                   MOTD told you so!
                    \_ a) how'd you pick "over 30".. why not "over 18"?
                       b) there's this (very, very wrong) mentality that only
                          kids play video games.  it's like saying "let's put
                          restrictions on the (book) publishing industry because
                          restrictions on the (book) publishing industry b/c
                          lots of kids read books"
                          \_ It's not that adult should not play games, it's
                             that adults generally don't have the time.
                             Those who make the time are generally
                             shirking responsibilities. All of the wives
                             of gamers I know are none too happy about it,
                             except for the couple of wives who play, too.
                             Is it worth getting a divorce over? Do you
                             want to miss playing with your kids because
                             your Everquest pals are going on a quest?
                             Whenever I play games I feel like I am
                             wasting my time. Sure, I waste time in Vegas
                             once per year, too - and that's about how
                             often I play video games.
                             often I play video games. I feel the same way
                             about, say, people who watch too much TV. If
                             you are spending more than a couple hours per
                             week playing games/watching TV/whatever then
                             you are not a very productive adult. There
                             does come a time to 'grow up'. Go fuck your
                             wife for that hour and forget the game.
                             Believe it or not, some people have issues
                             with that.
                             \_ I know plenty of married gamers whose spouses
                                don't game but don't have a problem with it.
                                It's a question of how much you do it.  Being
                                a gamer doesn't mean you are a terminal case
                                who makes games your first priority.
                             \_ You're all missing the point.  The point is
                                that "gamers" are not a voting block.  Whether
                                they're 19, 30 or 50, they'll vote based on
                                taxes, war, religion, social policy or whatever
                                just like everyone else--whereas the moms of
                                underage gamers can easily be swayed by stupid
                                fear campaigns.  So you can win votes from
                                soccer moms who are known to vote in large
                                numbers and to be willing to vote for either
                                party by demonizing video games, but in spite
                                of all their bitching on slashdot or motd,
                                the "gamer vote" doesn't matter.  How old the
                                gamers are is completely beside the point.