11/3    Keith Olbermann on Bush and political manipulation:
        http://csua.org/u/hd9 (rawstory.com, YouTube video)
        \_ Just don't call them Brown Shirts...
           \_ Unless you are a Conservative, then it is okay:
              http://www.mrc.org/press/2006/press20061102.asp
              \_ The mind utterly reels. OTOH, what a superb illustration of
                 the point: no nonsense is off-limits to the ultra-right.
                 [Edit: To be fair and balanced, yes, I understand that the
                  rhetoric of the ultra-left is silly and nonsensical as well.]
                 \_ They slip in a brownshirt comment at the end, but overall
                    they do have a point about Olbermann and the press in
                    general.  Certainly Olbermann is a lunatic and has gone
                    way overboard.  His little tirade about Bush being at
                    fault King Henry style for Stephanie Miller getting
                    death threats from some old crank or Olbermann getting
                    fake anthrax in the mail are simply insane.  Why does
                    a lunatic like Olbermann get air time?  It can't be
                    ratings because his suck.
                    \_ When you call the other > 50% of the population who
                       don't agree with you "lunatics", you're not making
                       a great case for the 30% of the population who
                       support your viewpoint.
                       \_ I'd *love* to see the URL that says 50% of the
                          population thinks Bush ordered a hit on Stephanie
                          Miller or to have Olbermann sent fake anthrax.
                          You are woefully confusing "will vote Democrat or
                          doesn't like Bush" with "think Bush sends Men In
                          Black out to threaten and kill people".
                          \_ You're either being purposefully obtuse, or you
                             did not listen to what Olbermann said.
                             \_ I did listen and I read it, too.  Read what I
                                replied to because you don't seem to be
                                responding to what I said at all.
                                \_ Olberman said "you sir, of course, did
                                   not order any of these things" but somehow
                                   you heard the exact opposite. I kind of
                                   wonder if it is he or you that is the insane
                                   one.
                                   \_ *laugh* nice way to pull half a line
                                      completely out of context.  Come back
                                      when you've read the whole thing and
                                      are willing to quote it for real and
                                      stop playing rhetorical baby games.
                                      \_ Just becasue someone disagrees with
                                         you does not make them insane. This
                                         might be something you should learn
                                         so that others will take your ideas
                                         more seriously. Many, many Americans
                                         think that Bush is at least partially
                                         responsible for coarsening the tone
                                         of the debate in this country. You
                                         obviously do not. But calling those
                                         who disagree with you "insane" does
                                         not help your case. At all.
                    \_ For those of us who don't think Fox is Fair or Balanced,
                       Olbermann does not sound like a lunatic. His outrage
                       (at this, at the mishandling of Katrina) is shared by
                       many of us non-lunatics.
                       \_ So you think Bush is somehow responsible for SM
                          getting a death threat from some old coot or
                          Olbermann himself getting fake anthrax or any of
                          the other things he ranted in that article's quote?
                          Katrina is an entirely different issue.  If you'd
                          like to discuss that, it deserves a new thread.
                          \_ I think the President is responsible for fostering
                             an us-or-them partisan atmosphere where criticism
                             of the President is characterized as treason. The
                             President could rectify this by calling on his
                             supporters to behave like civilized human beings
                             instead of implicitly condoning this behavior by
                             remaining silent.  That said, I doubt Bush has any
                             inclination to curtail these actions taken on his
                             behalf by unscrupulous loyalists.
                             \_ It went like this: Bush squeaks it out in
                                2000.  Partisans start with the name calling
                                and various other stupidity.  Bush makes
                                attempt to "work with the other party" by
                                letting Kennedy write the education bill.
                                Bush gets bashed by conservatives for being an
                                idiot trying to deal with Kennedy.  Other
                                party continues endless bashing.  Bush fumbles
                                around for a few years pretending it doesn't
                                exist which annoys his base.  Bashing from
                                other party continues.  Bush makes some weak
                                half hearted effort at hitting back.  Bush is
                                Satan.  As far as the details of this thread
                                go, I seriously doubt Bush even knows who
                                Stephanie Miller is and certainly wasn't aware
                                and didn't encourage anyone to send Olbermann
                                any fake anthrax.  Nor do I believe Nancy
                                Pelosi is responsible for the various idiots
                                running around for years calling Bush, etc,
                                war criminals, among a long list of other
                                things, nor is Nancy responsible for the
                                soldiers who have been attacked and harassed.
                                \_ Not condemning the acts of lunatics is sort
                                   of an implicit approval.  Why didn't Bush
                                   condemn the people who we're calling on
                                   others to threaten federal judges who were
                                   doing thier jobs?  The democrats have never
                                   been shy about denouncing the lunatics from
                                   the left.  Nor have they been shy about
                                   apologising for thier mistakes.  Where was
                                   the apology over "Mission Accomplished"
                                   banner as our troops still die?  I'll
                                   agree that both sides can get pretty crazy
                                   at times but the democrats don't support and
                                   encourage thier crazies. (at least nearly as
                                   much as the republicans)
                                   \_ So Bush is supposed to get on TV and
                                      condemn the act of every idiot in this
                                      country?  Until yesterday I not only
                                      had not heard that Stephanie Miller got
                                      death threats I didn't even know who
                                      Stephanie Miller was.  I'm sure the
                                      President's morning briefing includes a
                                      section on nut-heads he has to apologise
                                      for.  That makes no more sense than
                                      asking the Dems to apologise for Hinkley
                                      shooting Reagan.  You've stretched it way
                                      beyond reason.
                                      \_ Well, at least you are admitting your
                                         ignorance. This is a start. Hint:
                                         ever charge Olberman made about
                                         every charge Olberman made about
                                         political attacks against those who
                                         spoke out against Bush happened. I
                                         can provide you with evidence if you
                                         wish, but we should probably start
                                         another thread, becasue it is going
                                         to be a long one...
                                \_ Um.. Whatever.
                                   \_ Links were posted.  Check the archives.
                                      Sorry if reality doesn't fit your
                                      world view.
                                Not any more than Bush, Rove, etc, is
                                responsible for the old coot with Stephanie or
                                Olbermann's fake anthrax.  That sort of hate
                                filled lunacy has reached ridiculous
                                proportions on both sides.  The worst part is
                                reading the anecdotal stories of people who
                                don't speak to their relatives anymore because
                                they vote for the other party, which ever that
                                may be.  The hatred, all of it, is just
                                irrational.  Thus I call Olbermann and anyone
                                who thinks like him a lunatic.  It's just pure
                                blind hatred.  The inability to see the flaws
                                in his left wing heroes while determining
                                without zero evidence that all ill in the
                                world is the fault of the political opposition
                                is simple insanity.  --wordcount
                                is simple insanity.
                                \_ I love it. Condeming political violence
                                   is just "pure blind hatred" in your world.
                                   \_ Bzzt!  Read comprehension--.  Olbermann
                                      isn't insane for being pissed off that
                                      he got fake anthrax.  He is insane for
                                      blaming the President for it.  Thanks.
                                \_ When the President takes his former
                                   opponent's comments out of context and
                                   distorts their meaning, how is that not
                                   the very hate you're railing against? It's
                                   base manipulation, and it shouldn't be
                                   stood for on behalf of either party.
                                   \_ I don't know what out of context quotes
                                      you're refering to in this case but both
                                      parties do it and I agree that it isn't
                                      acceptable.  Either way, to blame Bush
                                      for Stephanie Miller's run in with the
                                      crazy old guy is crazier than the old
                                      guy.  To blame Bush for his fake anthrax
                                      delivery is equally insane.  Olbermann
                                      is a mad man.
                                      \_ Um, Olberman did absolutely zero of
                                         these things.
                                         \_ Did you read his quote in the
                                            mrc link?  Are they lying?  He
                                            said them.
                                            \_ They are lying by omission/
                                               stupidity.
                                               The full speech is online.
                                               Find it, read it.  Get back
                                               to me.  He did not "blame Bush"
                                               for any of these things.
                                               \_ I found it, I read it, the
                                                  answer is the same.  He
                                                  blamed bush.  It is right
                                                  there in the mrc link.  Show
                                                  me another one that shows
                                                  the mrc link has pulled him
                                                  out of context.
                                      \_ Yeah, I remember when Clinton was
                                         President and the liberals threatened
                                         violence against his critics and
                                         mailed out fake anthrax letters
                                         and called for the hanging of and
                                         treason charges against anyone who
                                         disagreed with him. Oh wait. None
                                         of that happened, did it.
                                         \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
                                         \_ Now you're just paraphrasing
                                            Olbermann's unfounded allgations.
                                            It didn't happen under Clinton and
                                            it isn't happening now under Bush.
                                            I'm so investing in tin foil.
              \_ Stupidity is never ok.