11/02   Americans always say their core value is promote democracy.
        Besides recent boycott of Hamas, we got this in Nicaragua:
        http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6423982
        This, and US past involvement in Iran, Guatemala, Chili, etc.
        Are you guys still dumb enough to think USA really believe in
        democracy?
        \_ Yes, the USA is all about promoting democracy.  Our democracy,
           right here in the US.  We cannot let any foreign government
           of any kind keep us from our God-given right to exploit
           foreign resources, products, and labor for the lowest cost.
           That is how we promote our democracy.
           \_ Actually, yes, that's the way it's been going.  We are committed
              to the democratic cause that all governments should be of the
              (American) people, by the (American) people, for the (American)
              people.
        \_ Hi chicom!
           \_ i am still waiting for you comment on this issue of
              "promoting democracy world wide" thing.
              \_ Why should I defend a straw man you set up?  Are you so
                 dumb that you actually believe what you wrote?
                 \_ I look at facts, and don't treat democracy as a religion.
                    you guys need to look at facts more coldly.  The fact
                    is, American talk about democracy, and they believe in
                    it too.  Just that it is never a first priority.  The
                    actual profit and exploit of resources always trump
                    democracy.  This is why we have no problem overthow
                    democratically elected government in Iran, Guatemula,
                    Chili, and now Palestine.  And we have no issue supporting
                    dictators, Monachs, Islamtic extremests world wide to
                    advance US agenda at the time. That, combine with severe
                    lack of sense of history tend to create very naive &
                    myopic policies.   Yet, at the same time, American don't
                    realize they are the aggressors, invading countries,
                    set up unfair trade policies, and torture people world
                    wide.
                    \_ 2 things: 1) any nation that puts a philosophy above
                       the health of the state at all times is suicidal.
                       2) the neocons in this country share your belief that
                       we should always ignore #1.  that hasn't worked out
                       that well.
                       \_ 1. America ALWAYS waging crusade, putting philosophy
                          abvoe health of the state.  Think "Evil Empire"
                          and "War on Terror."
                          2. good try, I didn't know you share the same
                          believe as Adolf Hitler.
        \_ Hamas, ah yes, beacon of democracy in the middle east.  Personally,
           I prefer Chinese style "charge the family for the bullet"
           democracy.  None of that messy voting or listening to the peasants.
           \_ given the choice of Chinese style government verus American-style
              democracy in Iraq, and Bosnia, I take Chinese style government
              any day.   It seems successful democracy need to go through
              a period of genocide.  America, Turkey, Bosnia, Iraq.
              Democracy is great, but given the choice, I prefer avoid
              genocide at any cost.
              \_ "at any cost".  Yes, safety above all else at all times.
                 The direct path to slavery.  A good call if you want to
                 live in chains and die at the whim of any passing
                 government official.  In all seriousness, if you really
                 believe what you said, you're not only in the wrong country,
                 you're in the wrong culture.  No where in the West has a
                 place for that kind of thinking.  And taking a quick look at
                 the standard of living for free people vs. enslaved people
                 around the world, you'll find a lot more of the enslaved
                 trying to get to free countries than the opposite.  But
                 that just makes plenty of room for you in your oppressive
                 country of choice.  That'll be the last choice you make.
                 \_ No where in the West?  my friend, let me kindly remind
                    you something.  This "Western" culture which values
                    basic rights of men traditionally ONLY apply to WHITEs.
                    This is the reason why just a couple years after America
                    declare its independence, it offers troops to *CRUSH*
                    Haiti's independence from French rule.  This is also
                    the reason why we defeated Nazi's occupation of France,
                    yet *SUPPORT* French occupation of Algeria and so-called
                    "indochina."
                    Do I believe personal freedom? yes.  Do I believe these
                    fredom includes political participations?  After I've
                    seen half dozens of countries/regions either fell
                    into sectarian violence or rise in ethnic tensions,
                    I am not sure any more.  It is easy for *YOU* to say
                    Iraqis are better off today than under Saddam's rule.
                    Try to live in Iraq (outside the green zone) for two weeks
                    you might get a sense of what I am getting at.
                    What you don't get is that freedom to participate in
                    political process is something "nice to have." but it
                    is by no means a necesscity.  Food, shelters,
                    personal SAFETY all take precedent.  Americans who
                    lives in the comfort of their own country certainly
                    don't understand this.  This is why Americans decided
                    that consitution, election is more important than security.
                    And at this rate, American is just going to leave and let
                    the violence taken its course.   The REALLY sad part is
                    that most Americans STILL DIDN'T learn from this lesson
                    which already cost hundres of thousands of lives.
        \_ Yes, I see the U.S. flag waving everywhere I go. I know the sun
           never sets on it. I see how we directly vote for our govern't
           just like a republic should. Despite all of this I can easily
           see that Communism is such a successful sys, that I don't know why
           we don't have it here. Yes, I don't know how or why a bigger
           country would try to make itself richer off a poorer country.
           I mean that's downright wrong - we should give away our all $
        \_ link:csua.org/u/hd8
        \_ Hey chicom, here's a more interesting question.  In order to be
           "pro-democracy" should the US support Hugo Chavez, as the elected
           leader of Argentina, or be against him because he is dismantling
           the Argentinian Democracy?
           \_ "I love *you*, but I *don't* love _you_!"   "But! We are the
              same in all ways!  Logical inconsistency!  Brain is frying!
              Mordron save us!"  Bvvvvvrrrrrrr, click.
           \_ Argentina? Hugo Chavez? There are adults speaking here.
              \_ he is one of 60% of Americans who don't know where is Mexico
                 on a world map.  give him a break.