10/31   A friend of mine said he's loving Microsoft again because Bill G
        is starting to donate all of his money to charity. He's boycotting
        Google, Yahoo, and other mega companies because they're too big and
        too power and thinks they're all becoming the old Microsoft, whereas
        Microsoft has recently done a lot of good things like investing in
        education and charity. He just paid for a copy of Microsoft Windows
        and he's pretty darn smug about it. How about you guys? Have you
        paid for your copy of Microsoft product recently and feel good about
        it because of their new image?
        \_ Your friend sounds like an insufferable bore.  I hope you have
           other, more interesting friends.  Seriously, who cares
           about the legal status of your copy of Windows?  And tells
           other people about it?  Argh.
        paid for your copy of Microsoft product recently and feel good about
        it because of their new image?
        \_ Google makes products I use. Microsoft doesn't. Not sure what's
           so great about this "new Microsoft" because they still make
           crappy products and their "donations" are in the form of MS
           products which are kind of crappy anyway. Bill Gate's own
           personal charity, on the other hand, is a different story.
        \_ wtf?
        \_ the new image won't be complete till they start giving out the
           Gates Peace Prize
        \_ the new microsoft is just like the old microsoft, only wealthier.
           \- GATES != MSFT. i think gates as been very smart about how he
              donates. i dont mean "smart" cynically. i have a lot of respect
              for how he has thought this through. msft is still a sleazy
              company buy i generally refer to specific sleazy practices ...
              like claiming credit for stuff they didnt really invent or
                        \_ usually we call what they've done "theft".
                           \- copyright/trademark etc is different from
                              physical expropriation. this is more of a
                              cause of pushing the U in FUD rather than
                              actually stealing a patented idea etc.
                              for example the "Digital Nervous System".
                              gee, was it coincidence that they were
                              affiliating them selves with the letters DNS?
                              and of course claiming lost of "innovations"
                              when it comes to file systems by giving
                              some long existing feature a new name etc.
                              \_ When I said theft.  I meant theft.  They are
                                 thieves.  Cutesy shit like calling something
                                 DNS is childish but mostly harmless and among
                                 the least of their crimes.
                                 \_ what is an example of something that
                                    can be considered "property" that thay
                                    stole and why weren't they sued?
                                    \_ They have been.  It has cost them
                                       billions of dollars over the years
                                       but that's still chicken feed compared
                                       to their monthly take.  And btw, in this
                                       country, copyright/etc *is* property
                                       even if you disagree with the law in
                                       that area.
                                       \- yes i am aware that in cases of IP
                                          theft that is property and they can
                                          and have been held liable. however
                                          this kind of thing is quite common
                                          for businesses and msft isnt
                                          especially unique here [intel].
                                          what i personally find more offensive
                                          is the sleazy stuff they do for
                                          which it is difficult to hold them
                                          liable [like having the published
                                          specs != implementation, which makes
                                          it hard for other to be msft compat
                                          since now you may have to be "bug
                                          for bug" compatible. second thing i
                                          find obnoxious is their terrible
                                          protocols ... like the insane way
                                          they used to do discovery of various
                                          services or "op locks" [jesus!].
                                          and of course there is coercive
                                          contracts ... like forcing people
                                          who bought intel hardware which never
                                          used windows to pay msft. these were
                                          the things more difficult to hold
                                          them accoutnable for ... not the
                                          run of the mill IP encroachments ...
                                          do you consider every company that
                                          loses or settles an IP or copyright
                                          case to be a theif? how about the
                                          woman who ran a restaurant called
                                          "sony"? BTW, i think a lot of MSFT's
                                          conduct makes formerlly evil IBM
                                          look much better. what is offensive
                                          is not always illegal. what is
                                          offensive doesnt always have the
                                          biggest business impact [i realize
                                          the DNS example is minor, but i
                                          thought it was illustrative. there
                                          is also an interesting "inside"
                                          story about MSFT, Paul vixie and
                                          DNS/bind ... i think it is in the
                                          wall archive if you are interested].
                                          \_ Other companies steal also.  The
                                             difference is the degree.  Without
                                             theft MS would likely not exist
                                             today.  On IBM: they have an
                                             equally ugly and evil history
                                             but the bulk of it is in the
                                             pre-90s mainframe world and the
                                             pre-computer typewriter world.
                                             After the Feds tried to break them
                                             up, they turned chicken and
                                             ceased doing anything interesting
                                             either legally or technically.
                                          look much better.
                                             \- 1. IBM has not generally been
                                                   a prick about using their
                                                   patents ... although it's
                                                   \_ This is such a
                                                      mind-numbingly stupid
                                                      statement that it
                                                      invalidates everything
                                                      else in your post(s).
                                                   a great defensive arsenal
                                                   because everybody is
                                                   violating ibm patents
                                                   (or if not, they dont
                                                   want to face ibm in
                                                   litiagation ... one
                                                   reason why it was great IBM
                                                   too the lean in the SCO
                                                   case)
                                                   \_ Neither is Microsoft.
                                                2. based on your chicken
                                                   comment you clearly dont
                                                   know anything about IBM.
                                                   \_ except for years of
                                                      inside information.
                                                      which 'chicken comment'
                                                      are you refering to?
                                                   [see patent applications,
                                                   see list of top 500
                                                   unclassified computers,
                                                   see ibm's work in storage
                                                   and material science (they
                                                   got out of the storage
                                                   business more recently due
                                                   to margins, not inability
                                                   to compete).
                                                   to compete) have you heard
                                                   of the CELL processor?
        http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/Computer/IBM_Patent_Stats.2004
        http://top500.org/stats/27/vendors
                                                   \_ Yes, IBM has done some
                                                      good work in non-CS
                                                      fields.  And can hook
                                                      up a room full of
                                                      x86 boxes together really
                                                      well.  And?
                                                3. can you sign your future
                                                   posts with some kind of uniq
                                                   hash so tyou can not be
                                                   hash so you can not be
                                                   taken seriously?
                                                   \_ Rudeness and personal
                                                      attack is neither clever
                                                      nor makes a point.  It
                                                      says a lot about you and
                                                      nothing about me.
                                                4. YBHBCA:S
                                                   \_ See above about personal
                                                      attack.  In the future
                                                      I'll sign as "years of
                                                      high up inside IBM info"
                                                      and you can sign as "IBM
                                                      is good because they're
                                                      just like Microsoft and
                                                      don't abuse their
                                                      patents".  Whatever.
                                                      Your logic is somewhat
                                                      twisted and lacking in
                                                      substance.  By your
                                                      logic, Microsoft is a
                                                      Good company because they
                                                      don't sue people over
                                                      patent violations.  It
                                                      was nice chatting with
                                                      you.  Maybe next time
                                                      you'll have a point and
                                                      back it with evidence
                                                      reason and logic instead
                                                      of personal insult.  Or
                                                      not.
              deliberately sowing confusion [like when they came uo with
              something called DNS.]. on the other hand a lot of other
              companies would no doubt do eqqually fiucked up things if they
              were in the position to do so ... like apple banning all books
              by john wiley&sons ... on the other hand, i think apple has
              done more legitimate innovation than msft.
              \_ why do you hate teh INVISIBLE HAND?
              ould no doubt do eqqually fiucked up things if they
              were in the position to do so ... like apple banning all books
              by john wiley&sons ... on the other hand, i think apple has
              done more legitimate innovation than msft.
              \_ why do you hate teh INVISIBLE HAND?