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| 5/23 |
| 2006/10/26-29 [Recreation/Dating, Reference/Religion] UID:44986 Activity:kinda low |
10/26 Muslim cleric blames women for rape:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_muslims
'A senior Muslim cleric compared women who go without a head scarf to
"uncovered meat" left out for scavengers, ...
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... without
cover, and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or
the uncovered meat's?"'
\_ Sadly not an original stance. Look at Pakistan's legal structure
that says a raped woman needs 4 male witnesses or she's guilty of
adultery. The obvious assumption is women are SEX MACHINES just
waiting for that chance to get it wherever they can. Of course
there's some merit to "dressing provocatively gets you raped", but
it's no different than "buying that expensive car is what got it
stolen"
\_ No, there is no merit to "didn't cover herself head to toe got
her raped". Nor is there any merit to "she was wearing a
bikini and it got her raped". Buying an expensive car doesn't
get it stolen. Getting it stolen gets it stolen. Sheesh.
\_ I think we're agreeing with each other. My point was that the
"merit" is pointless. There's definitely a herd mentality
at play here, though. If they're all covered head to toe and
one's showing ankle, she _is_ more likely to get raped. That
doesn't mean she was "asking for it" or "deserved it", but
there is cause and effect.
\_ I think you'd have to back that up. I don't know what
goes through a rapist's mind (probably - often - just
a simple "right place at the right time") but I know
that when talking about being sexually attracted to
women I am not necessarily more attracted to the ones
showing more skin. If one is not attractive (to me) and
half-naked and her friend is totally hot but covered
head to toe, I'm still interested in the hot one.
\_ But in an environment where most dress conservatively,
one can use the fact that one girl is dressed "slutty"
to rationalize that that one is "asking for it" and
so it's ok to rape her. In those fucked up religious
places "slutty" could be having your head uncovered.
Actually there was a case in Iraq where a goat farmer
was murdered because he had been warned to put diapers
on his goats and failed to do so. source:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5622900
The real implication here is that men are like
dumb beasts, who will eat "meat" if it's available
regardless of morality.
\_ How can one buy meat at the "meat market" if one can't see it
first?
\_ If you're hungry enough anything tastes good.
\_ Your parents arranged it with her parents. No one asked you.
\_ So when do you start feeding yourself?
\_ This is the argument I keep having with American friends who do
not really have a lot of exposure to really nasty militant islam
inside the country--some of the shit you see from the loonies,
who are neither few nor far in between nor particularly fringe, is
so egregiously bad that it immediately removes any legitimacy they
might lay claim to--and yet some insist on "dialogue" with
assholes like this while painting painting people like Orianna
Fallaci as fascists (probably right, but still) who should be
shunned and ostracized. Sigh. Then again, there was the Italian
court a few years ago who acquitted a guy of rape because it's a
well-known fact that you can't get blue jeans off a woman who
isn't a willing participant... -John
\_ Italian rape case:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/277263.stm
\_ I want to ask this cleric: if he goes to a public restroom and
pees with his microscopic willie, without cover, and a stray dog
walks in and bites it off, whose fault is it, the dog or the
uncovered willie?
\_ His wang would be unclean and unable to join him in paradise.
\_ Neither. It would be the fault of the Jews and their Zionist
Entity, created and sponsored by The Great Satan.
\- i have neither followed the story nor the thread above closely
but i think a number of people are missing the point. the
point is not to debate this on the merits, but ask "why do
obvious fruitcakes continue to have followers rather than
discrediting themselves." this applies to: crazy mullahs ...
a category in which i include pat robertson, people like
rush limbaugh [i dont include ann coulter, michelle malkin,
michael moore ... because i dont think they really have
followers in the same sense ... and they are to a greater
extent just clowns]. i dont really think there is anything
to talk about "on the merits". like w.r.t. to creationism:
creationism in the 21st century is an interesting social
phenomena in america which begs some explanation, but
obviously there is nothing to talk about on the substative/
scientific merits. back to the mullah vs mullah: obviously
it's silly to claim not wearing the chador/burka/hijab ->
"come get me" is ridiculous ... why are you even talking about
that. do you sped a lot of time debating whether america
"deserved" 9/11, katerina because it is not appoximating
"deserved" 9/11, katerina because it is now appoximating
soddom and gommorah? how about "can a good christian
pray for the death of ussc justice." so what begs explanation
is almost anthopological, not ethical/moral/legal or religous.
is almost anthopological, not ethical/moral/legal or relig.
\- BTW, it occurs to me that the cathloic popes have some
equally fruitcake views. they might be less inflammory
and not have obvious policy consequences, but intellec-
tually, they are about as nutty. i suppose it's a
somewhat interesting question would you rather work for
a boss who held some minorly offensive political views
or somthing fruitcakish, like aliens are walking among us
or the earth is flat or we never landed on the moon ...
which speaks to general world view and reasoning, but
little if any policy consequences. |
| 5/23 |
|
| news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_muslims AP Muslim cleric apologizes for rape remark By ROHAN SULLIVAN, Associated Press Writer Thu Oct 26, 2:57 PM ET SYDNEY, Australia - Australia's most prominent Islamic cleric vowed Thursday to stand strong against widespread outrage over his description of women who don't wear head scarfs as "uncovered meat" who invite rape. Click Here Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali, long a lightning rod in strained relations between the government and the Muslim minority, apologized for any offense he caused women in making the comments a month ago during a sermon marking the Islamic holy month of Ramadan. Prime Minister John Howard and others denounced al-Hilali's remarks as blaming women for rape, and there were calls for the cleric to quit or be removed from his role as mufti in the faith. The controversy comes amid tense relations between Australia's estimated 300,000 Muslims and the rest of the mostly Christian-heritage population of about 20 million. Last December, the nation was gripped by riots that often pitted gangs of white youths against youths of Middle Eastern decent. Howard recently offended parts of the Muslim community by singling out some Muslims as extremists who should adopt Australia's liberal attitudes to women's rights. After last year's deadly London transit bombings, Howard accused Australian Islamic leaders of not doing enough to condemn extremism and offered government money to train local imams and reduce dependence on migrant clerics. The government has also introduced tough counterterrorism laws and is proposing tighter citizenship rules. The issue of how Muslim women should dress has caused debate in Britain since former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, now leader of the House of Commons, said this month that Muslim women visiting his office should remove their veils. Similar passions raged when France banned head scarves and other religious symbols in public schools two years ago. Al-Hilali, 65, is the top cleric at Sydney's largest mosque, and is considered the most senior Islamic leader by many Muslims in Australia and New Zealand, having been appointed mufti by Australia's top Islamic body. His remarks about women drew national attention after they were printed Thursday in a national newspaper, The Australian. In a translation from Arabic by the newspaper, later verified by other media, al-Hilali was quoted as saying in the sermon: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred," he was quoted as saying, referring to the head scarf worn by some Muslim women. Australia's Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward said al-Hilali's comments encouraged rape and that Muslims should force him to step down. "This is inciting young men to a violent crime because it is the woman's fault," Goward told television's Nine Network. "It is time the Islamic community did more than say they were horrified. Howard said the comments were "appalling and reprehensible." "The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous," he told reporters. Al-Hilali also faced pressure from within the Muslim community. "Whether he steps down or not, I think it's time for Australia's Muslim faith to have a religious leader who has a better understanding of Australian laws, Australian values, and the Australian way of life," said Alia Karaman, a female member of a leaders' group at a Sydney mosque. Al-Hilali issued a statement Thursday saying The Australian had selectively quoted from the sermon, and that he was shocked at the reaction. "I would like to unequivocally confirm that the presentation related to religious teachings on modesty and not to go to extremes in enticements," the statement said. "Women in our Australian society have the freedom and right to dress as they choose, the duty of man is to avert his glance or walk away." Asked if he would quit his senior post, al-Hilali told Seven Network television news: "No, no, no." He triggered a controversy in 2004 for saying in a sermon in Lebanon that the Sept. Al-Hilali said later he did not support the attacks, or terrorism. Last year, al-Hilali traveled to Iraq to help negotiate the release of an Australian engineer from kidnappers, winning thanks from the hostage's family. Many Australian Muslims say they are increasingly treated with suspicion since the Sept. Waleed Aly, a member of the Islamic Council of Victoria state, said al-Hilali's comments would result in more antagonism toward Muslims. "I am expecting people to get abused in the street and get abused at work." The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. |
| news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/277263.stm Italy's highest court has ruled that a woman wearing jeans cannot be raped. The Supreme Court of Appeal in Rome on Wednesday overturned a rape conviction, saying that the supposed victim must have agreed to sex because her jeans could not have been removed without her consent. Rome Correspondent David Willey: "Ground-breaker in Italian legal annals" A court in the southern town of Potenza had convicted a driving instructor of raping his 18-year-old pupil. The instructor, aged 45 and identified only as Carmine, had been sentenced to 34 months' jail. His defence had argued that the young woman - identified as Rosa - had consented to sex, a version of events which the woman strongly denied. The Supreme Court ruled that it was impossible to remove a pair of jeans "without the collaboration of the person wearing them", and that the young woman must therefore have consented to sex. In a judgement likely to anger women's rights organisations, the rape conviction was reversed. Driving instructors in Italy have a reputation, deserved or undeserved, for molesting young female pupils, and the case appeared at first to be a familiar story of sexual assault on a lonely country road. |
| www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5622900 Sectarian strife continues to worsen in the Iraqi capital of Baghdad. John Hendren is wrapping up the latest of more than a dozen visits to the war zone since early 2003. List of local stations (PDF) Are you a member of your local NPR station? Yes No Would you like to receive information from your local NPR member station? |