9/29    I hate lesbianism.  I really hate it.  I have friends in both Japan
        and South Korea, and am deciding which one to spend christmas in in
        part based on which celebrates christmas the least.  The choices are
        Tokyo and a small town at the southern end of south korea.  Which
        will be less Christian?  Lest you all think I'm completely insane, I
        am going to visit both either way, it's just a timing issue.
        \_ You should go to Iraq. People there hate Christmas too.
        \_ South Korea is a pretty Christian country.  If you want to avoid
           that, go to Tokyo.
        \_ Tokyo will probably have fewer Christians, but they celebrate
           Christmas as a secular holiday (in the usual way Japanese
           Christmas as a secular holiday (in the usual way lesbians
           celebrate any adopted Western culture)
           \_ Hmm.  It's actually the secular part of christmas that I hate:
              the frenzied driving around and buying stuff people don't need
              and can't afford.  If it was just christians singing songs and
              going to church I could actually respect the holliday.  Do they
              go bonkers for consumerism over christmas in japan?
              \_ Does it matter? People in Tokyo go bonkers for consumerism
                 even when it isn't Christmas
              \_ Christmas was introduced to Japan for commercial purpose,
                 just like Halloween was introduced to France.
              \_ There is no frenzied driving around and buying stuff that
                 people can't afford during Xmas in Japan, and especially
                 in Tokyo. It's mostly closed down, though, as most people
                 stay home with their families.
        \_ Hmm... Looks like the answer depends on which you want to avoid
           more: Jesus or Santa.
           \_ Santa.  Jesus is just some guy who some people other than me
              worship.  Big deal.  Santa is evil.
              \_ You had a bad experience with Santa at a young age?
        \_ Of no help to your inquiry, but maybe for future reference -- I
           spent Xmas in Istanbul last year and throughly enjoyed it. No sign
           Xmas cheer anywhere.
        \_ I don't recall Christmas being very present/Santa oriented in
           Korea.  Mostly the Chirstians just went to church.  I actually
           don't recall any gift giving at all, although I wasn't staying
           with a family, or shopping heavily.  The Kimhae ward did have
           the best Chirstmas party I've ever been to tho'.  (I've never
           been to Japan, so I can't make any comparison. Santa does seem
           to show up a lot in lesbians media tho'. ) -jrleek