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| 11/23 |
| 2006/9/11-14 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:44350 Activity:moderate |
9/11 This happened during WW2 on September 12th. It illusrated what kind
of justice American unleash upon otherwise professional German
Navy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident
\_ Cool! Chicom Troll is back, I was getting worried. -John
\_ I remember watching something on the History Channel about some WWII
German ships trying to attack a British ship which was rescuing
German sailors from a German boat it had sunk earlier, forcing the
British ship to stop the rescue operation, abandon the remaining
Germans still in water, and fled the scene. These things are just
facts of warfare. After the war was over, the British sailors and
the rescued German sailors on that ship had regular reunions
together in memory of the event.
My impression from TV and movies are that the western militaries
My impression from TV and movies is that the western militaries
of both the Axis and the Allies were highly professiona. (The
Japanese were probably not. Didn't know about the other Asian
ones.) I was most touched by a scene in the last episode of the
ones.) I was most touched by a scene in the last episode of
Band of Brothers, which, after Germany surrendered, the German
officer drew his career-long side arm and offered to the American
officer drew his career-long sidearm and offered to the American
officer as a sovenior, saying "it's better than letting it sit on
some clark's desk collecting dust". In response the American offer
got up from his chair-rocking lay-back posture to standing-up in
full-alert, saying "you can keep you side arm, officer." Then they
full-alert, saying "you can keep you sidearm, officer." Then they
saluted.
\_ The Japanese army was highly professional, but adhered to
different "rules" of war, like Germans in Russia. In any case,
there are several examples of alleged Allied war crimes (check
wikipedia for a fun shitfight on the topic), many of which
weren't prosecuted because they sort of went under in the
general confusion, or it was felt the end justified the means.
The Laconia incident, while real, is a hilarious example of
ChiCom troll's ninja troll-fu, though, in the context of "ha ha
you puny American, you think you so good, well you do xyz <dig
up random unconnected irrelevant obscure badness>." -John
\_ japanphile. you are not alone.
\_ ...wtf? If I don't think someone's a monster, I'm a
someonephile? Your logic is broke. |
| 11/23 |
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| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident Laconia, transmitted the following message on the 600-meter band SSS SSS 0434 South / 1125 West Laconia torpedoed As the ship began to sink, Hartenstein surfaced, hoping to capture the ship's senior officers, but suprisingly saw over two thousand people struggling in the water. The 20,000-ton Laconia was carrying not only her regular crew of 136 but also some 80 civilians, military material and 268 British soldiers, and about 1,800 Italian prisoners of war with 160 Polish soldiers on guard. English to all shipping in the area giving his position, requesting assistance with the rescue effort and promising not to attack. It read: If any ship will assist the ship-wrecked "Laconia" crew, I will not attack providing I am not being attacked by ship or air forces. U-156 remained on the surface at the scene for the next two and a half days. Robert C Richardson III, replied with the order "Sink sub." Harden flew back to the scene of the rescue effort and at 12:32pm attacked with bombs and depth charges. One landed among the lifeboats in tow behind U-156 while others straddled the submarine itself. Hartenstein cast adrift those lifeboats still afloat and ordered the survivors on his deck into the water. Many hundreds of the Laconia survivors perished, but French vessels managed to re-rescue about a thousand later that day. Hague Conventions, hospital ships are protected from attack, but their identity must be communicated to belligerents (III, 1-3), they must be painted white with a Red Cross emblem (III, 5), and must not be used for other purposes (III, 4). hors de combat, the Red Cross emblem did not confer automatic protection, although in many cases it would have been allowed as a practical matter. The order given by Richardson has been called a possible war crime, but the use of a Red Cross flag by an armed military vessel may have been a violation of treaty. edit Consequences The Laconia incident had far-reaching consequences. Until then, as indicated in point #1 of the "Laconia order" (below), it was common for U-boats to assist torpedoed survivors with food, water and directions to the nearest land. Now that it was apparent that the Americans would attack rescue missions under the Red Cross flag, Dnitz ordered that rescues were prohibited; The defence argues that these orders and the evidence supporting them do not show such a policy and introduced much evidence to the contrary. The Tribunal is of the opinion that the evidence does not establish with the certainty required that Doenitz deliberately ordered the killing of shipwrecked survivors. The orders were undoubtedly ambiguous and deserve the strongest censure. The evidence further shows that the rescue provisions were not carried out and that the defendant ordered that they should not be carried out. The argument of the defence is that the security of the submarine is, as the first rule of the sea, paramount to rescue and that the development of aircraft made rescue impossible. If the commander cannot rescue, then under its terms he cannot sink a merchant vessel and should allow it to pass harmless before his periscope. edit Laconia-Befehl (Laconia Order) 1 Jegliche Rettungsversuche von Angehrigen versenkter Schiffe, also auch das Auffischen Schwimmender und Anbordgabe auf Rettungsboote, Aufrichten gekenterter Rettungsboote, Abgabe von Nahrungsmitteln und Wasser haben zu unterbleiben. Rettung widerspricht den primitivsten Forderungen der Kriegsfhrung nach Vernichtung feindlicher Schiffe und deren Besatzungen. Denkt daran, da der Gegner bei seinen Bombenangriffen auf deutsche Stdte keine Rcksicht auf Frauen und Kinder nimmt! Rescue contradicts the most basic demands of the war: the destruction of hostile ships and their crews. Remember that the enemy has no regard for women and children when bombing German cities! According to the official after-action report by the US Navy, all four submarines were present. Survivor accounts in One Common Enemy and The U-Boat Peril say the Italians arrived later. |