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| 7/16 |
| 2006/8/30-9/3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:44202 Activity:moderate |
8/30 I got invited to a Chinese wedding. I'm a white boy. What are
the protocols, especially with regard to gift giving? I know
about the red envelopes, but how much money and when? Anything
else I should know?
\_ What color is their wedding invitation?
If the wedding invitation is white or ivory, then, you can just
buy something in the wedding registry treat them as "American."
If the wedding invitation is bright red, then, you should seriously
consider give out cash.
The color wedding invitation is a good indicator how "traditional"
the couple wants their wedding to be. Being completely red is a
good indication that they are going for the "traditional" route.
Being completely white is a good indication that they are going
for American style, as Chinese usually reserve white for funerals.
If they have wedding registry somewhere, you could just buy
something from there without offending anyone regardless the color
of invitation. If you hunch is telling you should give cash, the
the general rule of thumb is between $100 - $200+. Avoid $250,
$140, $240. As for how you dispense the cash. The hard way is
go to a 99 Ranch Market and buy red envelops and put money in there.
The easy way is just buy a wedding card and stuck money in there.
The money is usually collect right before the banquet starts.
Contrary to what most of posting on motd, there is not much
serious taboos here. China is a vast land and regional culture
within China differs a great deal. Again, it depends upon the
the color of invitation. If you sense that this is going to be
a "traditional" wedding, Some of more serious things are:
1. don't give knives or weapons for gift. Instrutment of the death
is generally regards as unlucky by nature for the Chinese.
2. avoid clocks
3. if you give away cash, REMEMBER to BRING IT. one of the big
taboo not mentioned in motd is that Chinese don't take raincheck
for wedding gifts. it is consider unlucky.
4. it is ok to wear white or black, just not *ALL* white or
*ALL* black (white suit with colored tie is ok)
kngharv
\_ Thanks for the response. As below, the invitation is a red
traditional-looking one. So I should give $99 ideally?
\_ that is fine. good enough. really appreciate the fact that
you are being sensitive about other's culture.
As for suits, what if I wear a black suit with a colored tie?
\_ The fact that you're asking so many questions is an
indication that you're intimidated by the culture. I can
assure you that you're probably over doing it. Just give
cash in red envelopes (which you can buy from Ranch 99) and
give 99, 88, 188, 288, whatever. If you REALLY want to
impress the parents, write a few words in Chinese and learn
a few phrases. By doing so, they will be pleasantly
surprised and remember you as the smart white kid who
is knowledgeable and appreciative of the Chinese culture.
They'll also probably remember your face and name forever
since very few whites even attempt to understand them. Make
sure you learn the right tongue though-- don't speak
Mandarin if they're Cantonese, and vice versa.
BTW "9" rhymes with longevity which is a blessing. 8 is also
very good. Everything should be in pairs. You want to pair
99 or 88 or some sort. Keep in mind that Chinese banquets
usually cost between $500-$1000/table (depending on seafood
quality, how exotic the seafood is, how prestigious the
place is), and each table sits 10 people. Assume $500/table,
that's $50/person, so you should give at least that much if
you're attending yourself, and double the amount if you're
bringing a guest. As long as you can help them break even,
you're totally cool. And if you can learn a phrase or two
and show her parents that you're a cultured, smart,
sophisticated multilingual man and not some horny white
dude, they'll wish their daughter is marrying you instead.
Good luck and tell us how it goes ok? -Chinese
\_ I'm not intimidated. I just like to do as the Romans
do when I'm in Rome. I find it interesting. I don't
know much about Chinese culture.
\_ Is it better to say I dont know any Chinese than to
speak fake Chinese? A friend of mine used to speak
to his chinese girlfiend's parents in fake Chinese
to his Chinese girlfiend's parents in fake Chinese
over the phone.
\_ need more info from you. Are the hosts white washed asians or
traditional asians? What type of Chinese?
\_ http://csua.com/?entry=42989
\_ Search for Wedding Tips: http://tinyurl.com/kzsav
\_ need more info from you. Are the hosts white washed asians or
traditional asians? What type of Chinese (HK/Mainland/Taiwan/
Singapore/Malaysian)? If you assume all Chinese people are the
same YOU ARE IGNORANT.
\_ I have no idea. I know the groom, who is also caucasian. I
don't know him that well either. His bride-to-be's parents
mailed me a traditional-looking red invitation and the
reception will be at a traditional Chinese seafood restaurant.
\_ You have an easy case. Her parents are already disappointed
and thus their expectations will be very low. I mean their
rebellious daughter married a whity! They will expect
every single thousand-year-old traditions to be broken by
white people who are known to break them over and over
again. So you're cool. Go ahead and do whatever you want.
I recommend you buy them nice knife sets, preferably with
FOUR sharp knifes that are easily accessible in the
kitchen. The knives will be handy when they get into fights
7 years from now. -Chinese
\_ thousand year old traditions? you know Chinese is made
of hundreds, if not thoussands of tribes, right? you know
inter-racial marriage has been going on for 3000-4000
years, right? virtually all Chinese are mutts of some
sort.
\_ Then how come they all look the same to me?
\_ But traditions are passed down the male line. When a
woman marries a man of a different "race", she adopts
the tradition of the man's "race".
\_ So you're saying that her tradition will soon be
replaced with "Beer and football on Sundays"?
\_ Bravo! Bravo! That was magnificent.
\_ Fuck you, you racist piece of shit.
\_ Calm down, whitey. It's all true.
\_ No, fuck you. Seriously. There are plenty
of white supremacist christians, black
supremacist muslims, nordic supremacist
pegans, racist japanese nationalists, and
so on and so on out there in the world,
but *none* of them ever appear on the motd,
or anywhere else in civilized company in
this country. Yet somehow when the racist
is Chinese, it's ok? Not in this country.
\_ Take a deep breath and re-read that post
that set you off. I took it as being
ironic and tongue-in-cheek (but with a
hint of truth as to the actual view
probably held by the bride's Chinese
parents). The fact is that the parents
probably do have lower expectations for
white people when it comes to following
Chinese traditions, and they probably are
disappointed in her for out-marrying.
Simply observing that other people likely
have prejudiced views doesn't make your
observation racist. If you think it does,
you obviously have never experienced
racism.
\_ Didn't we already do this one? Chinese related subjects are
probably the most effective trollbait on the motd, but not when
they're recycled.
\_ I wasn't paying attention then. Should the gift of dollars
end in and 8 or a 9?
\_ 8's are lucky, 4's are unlucky. Don't give either knives or
clocks/watches.
\_ This is Chinese tradition, but do all Chinese people
really care. I mean if I was Chinese, I'd realize this
is silly and just give whatever amount I want. I mean is
it really that big of a deal, like if someone gets a watch
as a gift, they believe their marriage won't be happy?
\_ watches are okay, no clocks though
\_ Yes 8's are lucky in general. But for weddings you should
give an amount with a lot of 9's, e.g. $99.99 or $199.99.
That's because "9" sounds the same as "long-lasting" in both
Cantonese and Mandarin, and I guess they sound similar in
other dialects too. OTOH "clock" sounds the same as "end",
and "giving clock as a gift" sounds the same as "sending
someone off in a funeral". -- Cantonese
and "giving clock as a gift" sounds the same as "seeing off
the deceased in a funeral". -- Cantonese
\_ What if I want to use Hex? So, then I'll give
$99 Hex, which is $153 in base 10. But that has a
3 and a 1 in it and 3+1=4, so I'm screwed. But then
again, 1+5+3=9, so I'm good. Or, I could just use
binary and give $111111111, which is $511. On the
other hand, $9 in binary is $1001, which is 4
digits, so it's unlucky.
\_ Since binary and hex have not commonly been used
in Chinese business transactions in the past
couple of centuries, it does not matter, nor do
combinations of numbers, etc.
\_ Yawn.
\_ what about the case of a mixed white/chinese where they had
a registry and included things like knives and clocks on it?
\_ Then it depends on the the relative open-mindedness /
bitchiness of the in-laws on both sides. Some in-laws
are kind-of open-minded these days. For example, they
don't object the bride wearing a gown in white, which is
traditionally a color of bad luck and is only worn in
funerals.
\_ Get something from the registry. Then bring a red
envelope with some small amount of money.
\_ Unrelated, but tangential:
Why do Asian girls walk differently from every other
race? It's a sort of shuffle. Latinas, caucasians, etc.
\_ Footbinding?
do not walk like this and it is distinctive from a distance.
\_ I think you saw Japanese girls. Girls in Japan do walk
in certain way, and those who came to US recently walk
the same way. I don't see how Chinese girls walk
different than other races. -- Cantonese
\_ Japanese girls walk bow-legged because they are
into anal sex. Those women are not inhibited by
stupid Judeo-Christian views on morality.
\_ Ooh. When's the next flight available to
Japan???
\_ Dude, that's French girls. Not Japanese girls.
Japanese girls are into kinky bondage sex. It's
the French chicks that dig it up the old Hershey
highway. |
| 7/16 |
|
| csua.com/?entry=42989 Suppose a friend wants to maximize his wedding plans and would like to get the biggest bang for the bucks. He would like to invite as many people to the banquet as possible without losing too much money and without pissing people off. The only way to do so is by having the wedding back in Asia, which is not an option for him since most of his friends are in California. He's thinking about inviting as many close friends as possible so that red envelopes would recoup some of the costs, while minimizing the number of non-Asian people since they rarely give red envelopes. By the way I don't want to get into the whole topic of why many Americans we've met are so culturally insensitive, ignorant, careless, and rude that they give gifts instead of traditional auspicious red envelopes with amounts that at least recoup the cost of the wedding banquet. We especially want to avoid inviting non-Asians people who may unknowingly give really really cursed items like clocks, knives, and things that end up with the number four, or uneven number of things-- one more reason to not invite non-Asians. Anyways, depending on the quality of food and where he holds the banquet, each table is $500 for 10 people, and if he invites too many non-Asians he'll end up losing a lot of money and have bad luck. Is it ok to invite everyone to the vow thing and then exclude non-Asians to the banquet as to decrease bad luck and increase overall fortune of the year? We who study this problems cannot help because your unknown constants cannot be determined without the a certain about uncertainty (how odd), and perhaps a cultural anthropoligist. If offending your non-Asian friends costs you more money in terms of lost gifts than would be recouped by Red Envelopes, then you must avoid inviting Asians at all. The tricky part comes when analyzing the bad-luck gifts. Just how much income will you lose from dieing early if given a small clock vs. Weddings are for your family and friends, not yourself you selfish bastard. certain about uncertainty (how odd), and perhaps a cultural anthropoligist. If offending your non-Asian friends costs you more money in terms of lost gifts than would be recouped by Red Envelopes, then you must avoid inviting Asians at all. The tricky part comes when analyzing the bad-luck gifts. Just how much income will you lose from dieing early if given a small clock vs. Weddings are for your family and friends, not yourself you selfish bastard. At the front of the benquet, there is typically a team of three or four that acted as account receivable. As soon as the guest give out the envelope, the account receivable will 1 OPEN THE ENVELOPE, COUNT THE MONEY HE/SHE GAVE, and 2 write down how much he/she gave out in the "income statement." because when it's his/her turn to get married, you typically give the same amount back as SOCIAL NORM dictates. The tradition is designed to, effectively, lend the money to the new couples, when they need the money the most, and return the money to him/her when it's their turn to get married. The only exception to the rule is that you happened to have some rich friends and you happens to be poor. The tradition allow the wealthy to channel the funds to those in needs without having the recipein losing face. The social norm dictates that if you are out of town and have little chance to attend other's wedding, then, don't have such banquet. or says flat out in the invitation that red envelopes will NOT be accepted. and Yes, having such statement in the invitation is not as uncommon as you think. In short, stop being a cheap bastard in the name of tradition. So let's say I'm single and I "lend" $100 to my newlywed friend in his time of greatest financial need as a wedding "gift". If I ever get married, according to your setup, he would simply be "repaying" me if he gave me $100 as a gift, not "lending" to me in my time of greatest financial need. How about, if you're going to give a cash gift, just look at it as just that, a gift? But there is an unspoken rule that when it's your turn to get married, he/she will also gives you the money in return. he digs out the income statement and look at how much you gave the last time and start from there. There are a lot of factors involved and I was simplifying it to make a point. Normally we try to rough guess how much each head cost in a particular place and try to make sure the margin I made on my wedding is roughly the same margin he is going to make. People is not going to hold anything against you if you forgot to factor in, for example, inflations. It is typically for a bride/ groom to have couple extra tables, and there will be people come to the banquet uninvited. The logic behind such uninvited guest is following:"you may think you and I don't know each other well enough for you to ask money for me, but I felt I am good enough friend for you and thus I will attend your banquet, give you my blessing and of course cash gift." kngharv \_ Ok let's say I give $100 to my friend and 10 years passed and it's my turn to get married. Instead, hold a party for all your friends a few weeks afterwards (or whenever you're recovered from the wedding). It'll be much cheaper, they won't feel obligated to give you gifts you don't want, and everyone will probably have more fun anyway. Why should the motd work for you if you're not going to do anything for the motd in return? Within a year his wife had filed for divorce and shortly after that (before the divorce even went through) she died in a car accident. I am not superstitious, but lots of people told me knives are 'bad' gifts. Whether it's your fault or not, one thing is certain: the Chinese community gossips a lot, and most of them by now think that you're an yang chi idiot and will not invite you to their weddings. However, when there are so many other gifts to give, I won't chance it. And not to sound insensitive, but do you (pp) really blame the knives? But you can't just put in ANY money, you have to put in nice clean bills, as a sign of purity. The amount must be even number, and the term "double happiness" should be reflected. Never, ever, give things that have 4 in them, because it is just one tone away from the word death. Wedding registry gifts-- they're ok if the Chinese guy is a total ignorant banana in which case anything goes, so better ask if the groom/bride are ABC bananas. NEVER, EVER give knives and clocks unless you want the gossipy Chinese community to hate you for the rest of your life. So if you're a whitie and you're invited, you should feel proud of yourself for making it in the inner circle. Lastly the Chinese culture says if you have a vacation home in Santiago Chile you are obligated to offer them to use it any time they want. As for "not inviting whiteys", I turned the "let's gross out the gaijin for fun" around on a whole Japanese restaurant in Tokyo once, where they all somehow felt honor-bound to choke down the live-fish-in-sake they served us just because I chugged them instead of making a face and sending them back. Anyway, I thought not inviting gwailos was just because we're funny looking and weird. I kind of knew this stuff but my Chinese friends never actually explained it. So I'm gonna give them a set of 4 knives which each have a little digital clock in the handle. If some westerners consider giving money too crass, then they shouldn't come. The point of a wedding is to celebrate your love, not their cultural comfort zone. Also, those red (or, in Japan, white) envelopes really help with the cost. Your guests aren't there to pay for your wedding you cheapass asian. Invite friends and family to the nice exclusive banquet with exotic gourmet shark fins, dog meat, intestines, liver, and bobas while excluding foreigners who may feel offended or grossed out. Then invite the white people over to your backyard for BBQ, cheap beer, and football. But we returned almost all the gifts and got store credit, which is almost as good. In white culture you are supposed to give a gift which is approximately the same value as the cost of your seat at the banquet plus wedding costs, so it is the same tradition, almost. I fin... |
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