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| 5/25 |
| 2006/8/3-6 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:43890 Activity:low |
8/3 GM did NOT dismantle LA's mass transit. There is no conspiracy.
The mass transit system failed because of the following reasons:
-streetcar systems deterioration
-subsidy of competing systems
-competition with automobile
-suburbanization
Free-market forces (e.g. the "invisible hand" forces) dictate what
people want, and people simply prefer automobiles over the mass
transit system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
\_ You forgot "because people who live in LA have shit for brains."
How come the Invisible Hand doesn't kill the working mass transit
in nyc, Boston, SF, Seattle, Denver, or DC? Because people who
live in these places do not have shit for brains. Also, the
Invisble Hand would have killed the piece of shit GM calls a
company years ago without gov't subsidies.
live in these places do not have shit for brains.
\_ LA is huge
\_ Not any larger than the area serviced by MTA-funded transit
around New York. It's cultural. Fuck LA.
\_ If by not any larger you mean 3 times the size, then yeah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Los_Angeles_Area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area
\_ LA is a lot less dense than, say, NYC. What the heck
are you talking about re: Seattle and Denver? They
don't have good mass transit. DC, SF, and NYC do. You
might include Chicago or Boston, but I'd say LA is
on par with those.
\_ You've obviously never lived in the greater Denver area.
\_ The rail line goes from Denver to Littleton and back.
I worked in Littleton on a contract. My hotel
was in downtown Denver. I drove and so did almost
all of the people at that company who took the
same route, because even if you got to the
Littleton station you were stuck there. I hardly
call one rail line an example for all the US to
follow. Does it go out to the airport now?
\_ I checked and it's three rail lines now, none
of which go to the airport. Combined, they
are a whopping 16 miles of track. I don't
know *why* LA can't duplicate that awesome
masterpiece of modern transportation engineering.
\_ Cars and roads are the cause, sprawl the symptom.
\_ Cars, roads and sprawl are all symptoms. The disease
is in the mind.
\_ It's the Jews' fault. Just as Mel Gibson. -proud American |
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| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy anti-trust violations (contracts in restraint of trade, ie forcing subsidiaries to buy products from their owners: GM buses, Firestone tires, Standard and Phillips oil). Chicago of criminal conspiracy in this matter and fined $5,000. A central part of the argument concerns motivation: that GM and its business partners wanted to discontinue streetcar lines to increase automobile demand. It is undisputed that all the corporations involved wanted to grow their businesses. Additionally, some conspiracy theory advocates go further by asserting that riding a bus is so unpleasant compared to a train that the consortium's ulterior motive was to get people away from mass transit altogether and into automobiles of their own. Certainly, the lurching braking and acceleration characteristics of a bus don't compare favorably with the smooth power of an electrified rail line. trolley systems, known as the "Red Cars" and the "Yellow Cars." National City Lines owned only one of the two systems, yet both were dismantled. It should however be noted that the systems were often used in conjunction by travelers and cutting service on one line made the other less convenient compared to automobiles. Additionally, during this period automobile ownership was rising everywhere, in cities both with and without GM purchasing the local streetcar systems. London, without GM's involvement, because buses were seen as the new technology at the time. Buses were also seen as more flexible than streetcars, as they could route around track blockages, and could use any road, and not just roads with tracks, thus off-loading infrastructure costs to the municipality. edit Name of the conspiracy General Motors did not act alone. It combined with Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California and two other companies to form National City Lines, which actually purchased streetcar systems. Therefore, if "conspiracy" is a proper description, it would rightly be the National City Lines, or the "General Motors-Firestone-Standard Oil-National City Lines Conspiracy." as GM was the most prominent of the companies and engaged in similar behavior before the actual conspiracy, the name fits. Standard Oil is a name unknown to many present-day Americans and Firestone is now a mere subsidiary of Japanese-owned Bridgestone Tire Company. edit Further reading * Bradford C Snell, American Ground Transport: A Proposal for Restructuring the Automobile, Truck, Bus and Rail Industries. Report presented to the Committee of the Judiciary, Subcommittee on Antitrust and Monopoly, United States Senate, February 26, 1974, United States Government Printing Office, Washington, 1974, pp. |
| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Los_Angeles_Area Palos Verdes peninsula lies across the basin on the Pacific coast; The area's reputation for sprawl is more historic than real in today's terms. Los Angeles became a major city just as automobiles began to be mass-produced, and as a result it developed somewhat less densely. It is, however, essential to understand that this statistic is deceptively low because the municipal boundary encloses the sparsely-inhabited Santa Monica Mountains. New, cheaper or undeveloped areas are being sought, and recently popular areas have been in Riverside County, Irvine, and Coachella Valley. As such, in these areas, populations as well as housing prices have exploded. As real-estate investment becomes focused towards the central areas of the city, these numbers are beginning to change. For example, Downtown Los Angeles is gaining more skyscrapers (some of which are residential towers), the office vacancy rate is decreasing, and the value of housing units and homes continues to rise. From a height, a flat area completely filled with houses, buildings, roads, and freeways From a height, a flat area completely filled with houses, buildings, roads, and freeways Due to the decentralized nature of Southern California, there is no universally accepted definition of the terms "Greater Los Angeles Area" or "Southland," the definition varies from one region of Southern California to the next. With the counties of Southern California being the size of states on the east coast, and due to the extensive geographic sprawl, many residents of "Greater Los Angeles" conduct daily activities without crossing into Los Angeles County. Some residents of Orange County, for example, use the term Greater Los Angeles to refer to the area to the north of Orange County's borders. San Diego County has its own employment base, arts, and other metropolitan amenities; as a result, many residents of Orange County do not venture outside of the county except on relatively few occasions. Los Angeles Basin at dawn Some areas are bounded by natural features such as mountains or the ocean; others are marked by city boundaries, freeways, or other constructed landmarks. |
| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area Combined Statistical Area (CSA) with an estimated population of 21,858,830 (as of 2004). This, when taken in proportion to population of the United States means that about one out of every fourteen Americans resides in this metropolitan area. Enlarge New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA Metropolitan Statistical Area New York-Wayne-White Plains, NY-NJ Metropolitan Division Nassau-Suffolk, NY Metropolitan Division Newark-Union, NJ-PA Metropolitan Division Edison, NJ Metropolitan Division Rest of the New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT Combined Statistical Area The counties and county groupings comprising the New York metropolitan area are listed below with 2004 US Census Bureau estimates of their populations. The cuisines of virtually every ethnic group on the planet are at least partially represented in the area, with the culinary landscape of New York changing slightly from year to year as new arrivals settle in. The New York metropolitan area hosts a religious diversity in line with its ethnic diversity. Individual politics in the New York Metropolitan area vary greatly, but coexisting in such a huge population of many diverse cultures and backgrounds requires a large amount of tolerance for differing worldviews. As a result, the residents of the Tri-state area are traditionally very liberal. William J Bratton's implementation of a more computer and data driven police force (known as COMPSTAT), violent crime in the city dropped to levels not seen since the 1950s. As a result, a new synthesis has begun to emerge across the metropolitan area. New York Conservative Party, which cross-endorses many more conservative Republicans in the state, especially statewide candidates and legislators. Despite this, the overwhelming majority of congressmen and city council members are Democratic. This divide reflects the diverse views held by New York City's millions of residents. The suburban areas of the New York metropolitan region are fairly evenly divided between communities that trend to the Democrats and those that favor Republicans-- at least in local and state politics. Westchester, whereas the suburbs of many other cities are still strongly Republican. Nationally, there is a definite preference for the Democrats by people in the New York region. While the city itself has some bad areas, and some of the inner metropolitan cities have poor reputations, the New York Metro Area is overall one of the safest areas to live in. Long Island, New York was rated the safest place to live per-capita in 2005, followed by Middlesex and Monmouth counties in New Jersey. New York City itself has been ranked by the Federal Bureau of Investigation as the safest big city in the United States in recent years. Much of this (especially in the inner city areas) can be credited to major "quality of life" initiatives passed in the 1990s; back in the 1970s the area had a reputation (exaggerated but not unfounded) as one of the most dangerous areas of the US to live in. Connecticut, where about one third of the state is considered a suburb of New York, is home to some of the most expensive and affluent areas in the world. Most school districts in New York City itself and other nearby "inner-city" communities have a reputation for being unsatisfactory; however, many school districts in the wealthier suburbs are considered very effective and among the best in the entire country. In some of the Connecticut and especially the New Jersey suburbs, this is achieved with lower costs of living than the city itself (especially Manhattan). |