7/17 Pardon me, but what the fuck? Is average CSUA member not command
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
English basics language no more? I thought ESL was a fundamental
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requirement for acceptance to Cal? Free tip: your point, whatever
it is, will not be ridiculed or ignored as much if it's not
written in orc. -John
\_ Wow, you're a judgemental Nazi. No wonder people hate you on motd.
Fuck you Heil German John. I'm watching you. -German John Hater #3
\_ Free tip: don't give advice when it is not asked for.
Go fuck yourself.
\_ Free tip #1: Stop plagiarizing from the USGA etiquette "do not
give advice to others on the course unless they ask you for
it" and "Never coach or give unsolicited advice.")
http:/ http://www.waggle.com/etiquette.htm
http://www.sideroad.com/Business_Etiquette/business-golf-etiquette.html
Free tip #2: "Go fuck yourself" isn't one of the USGA's
etiquettes.
Free tip #3: Go fuck yourself.
\_ This would've been a great troll except for the fact that you
got back-trolled big time.
\- you may want to re-evaluate your original intent vs. the
actual result of what you're trying to say. this is from me
as an observer's point of view:
-what you wanted to convey: "i am a nice person and i want to help
you poor immigrants. i think that if you guys want to communicate
effectively you should take some time to learn english
, otherwise you will be ignored."
-what a few heard: "you are all guests on my
land and if you want to live here you need to learn my
language or else get the fuck out of here."
-what pissed-off immigrants heard: "i am a white male and even
though i speak poorer asian languages than you speak
english, you still need to learn my language because i belong
to the white race with bigger penises. we are righteous and
you are not. you must respect our authority and learn english"
-what the overall intent is: "John is a jerk"
please re-evaluate your method of communication. your reply
is not necessary. ok thx.
\_ From this post I read: "I like to fuck my mother and drink pee."
\_ Does not parse. I am a jerk. I don't give a rat's ass what
immigrants, psb or anyone reads into this. I posted a very
\- leave me out of this.
but i do think you are sort of ratcheting
and in some cases may not be able to tell
ignorance from apathy. --psb
\_ If you sound like an ignoramus, you are
judged like one, period. -John
\- my point is: if you are judging based on
the sloda wall or motd, people may not
be bothering to write well, rather than
being unable to do so. even native speakers
are sloppy here, not unreasonably so.
and i think if you are coming to the US
to study say engineering, there may be a
diminishing marginal return calculation
for how much you invest in grammar.
so are you going to take on ebonics
so are you going to taken on ebonics
speakers next?
i'd be curious how many of your native
english speaking friends could explain
the difference between say "compared to"
and "compared with". if an ESL speaker
gets further and farther confused, i'd
cut them [sic] some slack. if a non-engineer
native speaker cant tell you the diff
cut them some slack. a lot of non-engineer
native speakers cant tell you the diff
between precision and accuracy ... probably
not a disaster. a foreign speaker isnt a
lawyer, not knowing the diff between "that"
and "which" is also probably not a big deal.
i'm not very careful about those usually.
i'm not very careful with those usually.
i think a lot of grammar nazis 1. worry
about dumb things like "data is plural"
or "dont use hopefully" 2. have pretty
shallow knowledge [they know easy rules
like it's vs its, but drown in slightly
deeper waters].
deeper waters. a good example is that cow
who wrote the Eat Shoot Leave book].
\_ I think there's a pretty big difference
between "not knowing data is plural" and
"completely incoherent". I suspect
John is mostly complaining about the
latter, and you're criticizing (at least
in part) John on the basis that he's
speaking about the previous.
clear point about students at what is supposedly one of the
best schools in the world seemingly not having a basic
command of that school's language. If you want to interpret
that as being an anti-immigrant rant, or some sort of
belittling of other cultures/countries, that's your problem.
Your reply is not necessary. ok thx. -John
\_ psb: your coworkers asian stupid "oh psb immigrants
THE MAN! He knows Greek mythology asian stupid lila.
He immigrants god." "we asian stupid immigrants, we
can't understand his circumlocutory speech!"
\_ I'm sorry but WHAT THE HELL are you talking about?
\_ This is a sublime "If you have to ask, you don't know"
moment.
\_ I'm multi-lingual and my observation is that Westerners in general
have a much more difficult time learning non-Western languages
than the other way around. How would you personally feel if you
tried your best to learn in a completely different language system
in a completely different culture but still get ridiculed in the
process? Oh, you wouldn't know, because you're a Westerner who
can't see from the other side's point of view. No wonder the rest
of the world hates you and is eager to see 911 again,
over and over again. Go fuck yourself.
\_ 1) Go fuck yourself as well.
2) Part of the reason people give you shit is that your politics
are repellant to anyone living in a free society and you
defend one of the most loathesome governments on the
planet on a regular basis.
3) I'm a white guy who was thrown into a school of all Mandarin
speaking kids who knew no English when I was 10, and I'm
damn well not about to whine if someone gives me shit about
not knowing the difference between, say, different measure
words, in spite of the fact that my native language has no
measure words in the sense that Mandarin does.
4) I don't have a college degree from a Chinese university.
5) Did I mention go fuck yourself? Oh, yeah, go fuck yourself.
\_ Blow me, I'm going through that right now, starting from zero,
and making a reasonable go of it. This is language #4, by
the way. But I don't presume to go to their top school with
my crappy understanding and grammar. And what the fuck is it
with you and "Westerners"? What does that have to do with
anything? I guess that makes us deserve 911 over and over
again, and I've been (badly) trolled. Cretin. -John
my crappy understanding and grammar. I guess that makes me
as a "Westerner" deserve 911. Touchy, aren't we. -John
\_ then, should US Education restore the policy of given
IQ test in English to those immigrants and dump them into
retard classes based upon the IQ test result?
\_ I don't know what it is with you Swiss but I've had similar
experiences with another pedantic Swiss in Berkeley who seems to
enjoy correcting every little grammatical mistake people make.
Eventually most of us in the company grew resentful of him
(including the CEO who was a minority) and eventually drove him
out of our company. Perhaps you should ask why immigrants don't
like to conform, as understanding the root of the problem may help
you find constructive measures. One of the root causes is
western resentment. If it weren't for you westerners, our
motherlands would still be glorious and our ethnicity would still
be portrayed kindly. But instead your predecessors and your elected
leaders continually harrass, rape, and pillage nations like Vietnam
and Iraq and made us into worthless refugees into your land, only
to be ridiculed for every little tradition we hold dearly in our
heart because whatever it is, rarely comform to your western
standard. Personally, most of us are sick and tired of your
unyielding, dominating western ways, and we just don't like you
people, period. We will continue doing whatever it is we please,
and if it annoys you, great! -foreigner, proud of it
\_ "Every little grammatical mistake"? No, I'm castigating UC
Berkeley students who're supposed to have a firm command of
the English language but instead sound like they learned the
language from the villains of bad war movies (or who're doing
it on purpose to troll more effectively.) You seem to have
a (reasonably) firm command of the English language. You're
still a troll and an idiot, but do you notice how well that
comes across? -John
\_ John, there is a structural problems here in our public
education system (see my post below). Not everything is the
fault of these individuals. This is one of the reason why
problems are a lot more widespread. I can
assure you that *MAJORITY* of otherwise bright and qualified
immigrants DID NOT end up at top Universities due to the fact
that there isn't much incentive in our public school system
to teach them English. Those few who defeated
the odds and made here is either very lucky (i.e. my case) or
he/she is extra-ordinary in some way. Blame this squarely
on individual is going to cause a lot more resentment and
you see all sort of defensive postures. As for stereo types
and Asian being "looked down upon." Let me share this with
you. When I was in high school, I can barely communicate
my thoughts and most people don't have the patience to talk
to me. At the same time, we got this ethnic Vietnamese
who raised in Paris, native French speaker, speak worse
English than I am, but he get a lot more attention and slack
than I do. It's not the color of skin thing, but, there
is a real differences on how average American treats
Europeans immigrants differently than those from Asia.
\_ I don't know who you are and why you've recently dominated
most of the posts on motd but I'm starting to realize that
you probably need something as simple as medications or
therapies. But then again that is not unique to most of the
weirdos who post on motd. Troll on.
\_ first of all, it's just me, not "average CSUA member."
I happened to be a slow language learner and amused by
average Europeans that can speak more than 3 language without
effort. Secondly, since you bought up, ESL *IS* the problem.
To make a long story short, issue with ESL is that 1.
UC requires 2 or 3 years of non-ESL (regular English) class, 2.
ESL is funded by number of headcounts; thus, there isn't much
of an incentive for those who is running ESL program to make
people "graduate" to regular English classes. 3. As consequences,
most people who stuck in ESL program are dumb fucks who has no
real chance to go to college in UC system; 4. Since the pace
of ESL classes mostly determined by the peers, and the fact that
most students in ESL classes has no college ambition, you don't
learn any English as result (Chinese, Arabic, and Spanish was
more common in those classes). In my personal case, it took cheat
(smuggle to ESL office and tweak the official record on language
proficiency), and bribe to for me to get out of ESL in-time just
to be UC eligable. But by that time, I was thrust into classes
on Virginia Wolfe / Nathaniel Hawthorne without any knowledge of
basic sentence and grammar. I am not blaming the system for
my failure. But the sheer fact that you can comprehen what I am
trying to say is considered a huge personal achievement given
the circumstances I was in.
\_ Well, congrats on making it -- but feel comforted by the fact
that it's not just you. There are plenty of people here that
have no excuse and, as John puts it, sound as though they're
speaking orc.... Seriously, though, unless you plan on going
back to your country of origin I strongly suggest that you
work on your language proficiency. It may not be the
official language of the country, but it's still one of the
things your intelligence will be judged by. It can harder to
things your intelligence will be judged by. It can be harder to
land a tech job (or any job, really) if you're unable to
coherently communicate your ideas. (and man, this thread is
just begging for someone to run jive or valspeak, on it,
isn't it?)
coherently communicate your ideas. (and man, dis dread be plum
beggin' fo' someone t'run JIBE o' valspeak, on it, isn't it?)
\_ Maybe you should consider the possibility that most
foreigners look at Westerners as people who judge easily by
the way others look or talk. Maybe foreigners think that
Westerners are superficial, thus don't really care to
conform to the Western standards. Whatever. Go fuck yourself
\_ You pretty good looking for a HU-MAHN!
\_ racist white imperialist oppressing brown people!
\_ How to get started? I am going to get a tutor eventually,
but I think I can start with some highschool level grammar
book. Any recommendation?
book. Any recommendation?
\- you can probably get a used copy of BASIC ENGLISH
REVISITED (it's kinda of a weird book) for <$5.
it's not all grammar but a reference book. the
actual textbook i used is pretty expensive now
and probably not worth it. --psb
\_ if it is a good book and worth recommending,
do you remember the title of the book?
\_ Unless you have a need to infiltrate or become part of the
dirty bi ren culture, I'm sure you have a much better use
of your time than to follow bi ren's advice. You should be
proud of who you are and what you are, and don't give in.
Don't listen to bi ren John. He is a verbal bully and a
total jerk. Look. If someone judges you by the way you
talk or look, that person is shallow and full of shit
and is a total jerk and does not deserve your respect.
That goes with 90% of the bi ren trash I've met in my
life. BI REN ZHUAY TAO YAN GAN TA MA DI.
\_ He didn't judge on it. He pointed out that others
would. It's a fact and you're just being stupid.
Of course people judge on the way people talk and
look. Chinese do that as much... actually I'd say
a lot more in my experience. The diversity of the
USA far exceeds any Asian country. Who's superficial?
Nobody owes you anything.
\_ You may be able to find a tutor interested in helping
you with English in exchange for help with your native
language.
\_ thanks. But being a native speaker is by no mean
a commander of my own native language. I am planning
on getting a native language tutor as well :D |
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