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| 12/24 |
| 2006/7/9-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43605 Activity:kinda low |
7/9 Boo. Zidane. Boo. -John
\_ I liked it. You are stupid. Keira Knightley is still flat.
\_ yeah, those islamic terrorist. should of rendition him to
egypt or Jordan.
\_ I'm a france fan, but still that was an awesome move!
\_ Why? It didn't do anything and he got ejected. It was retarded.
\_ It was lame. He was set to end an awesome career as one of the
best and most respected players ever on a really high note,
whether they won or lost. Not showing up for the medal
ceremony was even worse. I always thought of the guy as a
really good sport as well as a superb player, despite his
early career temper outbreaks. This just sucked. -John
\_ I saw a couple dives from him over last couple games.
I think he was pissed his header was stopped.
\- I am kinda wondering, and even kinda hoping, it will
turn out that was in response to some kind of racial or
ethinic or relig taunt and the tide of sympathy will
turn to ZZ. He's a great player technically, isnt a diving
\- i think this is particlarly likely given that ZZ
whacked MM, who is one of the more thuggish italian
players [MM was suspended a while ago for whacking
another Serie A player in the face and was also the
guy responsible for ZZ getting the early PK when
he hit MALOUDA]
weasel, he's been through a lot of crap domestically in
france, and a prett decent guy off the field [HENRY on the
other hand led a bit of a rock star lifestyle but lately
got a lot of sympathy after the spanish coach incident].
There is certainly a "grand tragedy" element to this ...
ZZ was one of the best PKers in the world [for the imminent
KFTM phase], he would have won the MVP gold ball award
probably if France had won ... so he woul dhave gone out
probably if France had won ... so he would have gone out
on the highest note possible. But unless some mitigating
story emerges, his career is going to be bracketed by two
headbutts. Here is a good older article about ZZ:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1182707,00.html
Would have been nice to have seen HENRY and T'GUET play
"en ensemble" rather than as close subs. BTW, you are
probably right ZZ just didnt want to come out for the
medals, but it is possible the fact that after the RED CARD
he was obligated to leave the area had some element ... but
probably he could have come back if he wanted to. i guess
DE ROSSI'S suspension ended just in time for the final after
his suspension after putting a bunch of stiches in MCBRIDE's
head. --psb
\_ we could lock him up, toss him into a jail in Egypt
somewehre, pull his finger nails out one by one and find
out why he did it. He is a muslim, right? we already
have plenty of facilities to deal with these muslims.
\_ I suspect so as well. I wouldn't put it past Materazzi &
co. to have tried to rattle Ziziou all game; I'd give $$$
to have been able to listen in after MM held him back
before the headbutt. -John
\- I watched this a couple of times:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBV52GPhNjw
Maybe wishful thinking but it seems that MM
may have done 1. a nipple tweak [remember, there was
probably a covert ear pull on Ballack in the GER-ITA
game] which ZZ brushes off 2. then come comments as the
are walking along together 3. then presumably some
escalatory comment as ZZ spins around ad immediately
butts MM. If it did turn out that MM said something
maximally offensive [n-word level or think of the
crudest anti-semitic thing you can think of ... not
just a "yermom" joke] do you really blame somebody for
clocking the other person. Well yes you do given the
circumstances, but i think my reaction is he should have
waited 10min and then whacked him ... meaning it was
whackworthy. Something like what happened after the
ARG-GER game [although with differnt motivations].
I guess I dont buy the view expressed by some that no
trash talk justifies the knock to the chest i.e. the
"they are just words" view. I thin the Red Card was
appropriate and they had now choice, but again if it
does turn out MM said some "maximally insulting" thing
who would you think worse of: Somebody with a flash of
anger or somebody so classless as to resort to the
crudest insults [which i dont think are "part of the
game"] or even worse somebody who really is a bigot.
Is the judgement of history really going to be ZZ was
"shameful" or "disgraced" or just dumb? There is a
difference.
\_ "Maximally insulting"? What does that even mean?
Insults only mean as much as a person lets them
mean. People have probably died over yermom jokes.
Being dumb like that in a crucial moment is rather
shame- and disgraceful by itself. I would not be
surprised if MM "had it coming" or whatever but
there's really no way around it.
By the way I would not advise assaulting someone
because of insults regardless of their racial,
national, or religious content.
\- if you cant think of an example, either you have
lived a pretty sheltered life or dont have much
imagination. i dont think it is appropriate to
give examples in the motd. you might want to
watch the movie "white hunter black heart"
for the woman->sketch of hitler scene.
--chaplinsky@soda
\_ No I just understand that words really are
words at the end of the day. Of course
football is also only football and ZZ's
headbutt was the most entertaining thing
to happen in a match watched for entertainment.
Allez!
\- You know spitting on an opponent is a
Red Card offense right. Do you think that
is unreasonable...after all, it is just
water?? Do you think with insults between
players the rule should be you can say
whatever you want? whatever you want as
long as the ref doesnt hear? how about
getting the crowd into it by making
animal sounds, nazi salutes etc? [some
of this has happened in futbol in europe,
\- You know spitting on an opponent is a Red a
Card offense right. Do you think that is
unreasonable?...after all, it is just water
plus germs and phlegm etc. _/
... and i am not even sure your "spitball"
has to hit somebody. Do you think with
insults between players the rule should be
you can say whatever you want? whatever you
want as long as the ref doesnt hear? how
about getting the crowd into it by making
animal sounds, nazi salutes etc? [some of
this has happened in futbol in europe,
cricket in australia etc]. [BTW, there is a
Red Card provision for inappropriate verbal
comments. I cant think of any cases where
this came into effect so I dont have any
context of events. There have been a few
famous spitting incidents].
famous spitting incidents ... the FRA keeper
was suspended for 6mos over a spitting
incident (against a ref, tho).
\_ Spit is physical. I think doing something
egregiously unsportsmanlike deserves red
cards so obviously spitting belongs. So
would some kind of racist gestures. Your
"as long as the ref doesn't hear" is no
different from other incidents... if ZZ's
headbutt hadn't been caught on camera and
displayed in the stadium he probably
would not have been carded. In theory
verbal comments could cause this (But
the only related example I ever see are
when the ref cards for arguing with the
ref.) But even if MM should have been
red carded it doesn't really help ZZ's
case. The apparent nipple tweak might
though. ZZ most probably had a pretty
good reason but it would appear he
placed his ego above the team.
\- being spat upon is not really physical
but at essence a demeaning gesture.
again i think you can be suspended
for spitting at somebody and not
landing the spitball. they are NOT
allowed to book somebody for
something that was not seen by one
of the 4 officials [ref, ast refs on
the touchlines, or "4th man" ...
who is not supposed to use video].
the claim is only this 4th man saw it
directly. they also dont show replays
of controversial stuff in the stadium.
BTW, Sepp and Co have proposed going
to 2 refs for SA 2010 WC. Also lots
of discussion about letting game-
related decisions [say related to
offsides] stand but ex post
penalites for things noticed on
video [diving]. the world is more
complicated than "there are physical
assaults and non-physical ones and
physical ones are lexicographically
worse". i find it odd that any adult
cannot see the "sticks and stones...
words can never hurt me" is nonsense.
assuming you are a USA white person
i dunno if there is an equivalent
to something like "kaffir boeties"
here. see e.g. paragraph 3 here:
http://tinyurl.com/g7he3
about how generic "your mama" taunts
are not the same as personally
tailored "maximal insults". if a
german player said "after the game
i am going to clean my ass with a
soapbar my grandfather made out of
your grandfather" would you blame the
jewish person from clocking the
german guy?
\_ Yes, I would blame the Jew. Every-
one else does! (rimshot!) It Is
clear from your description that
your hypothetical German is just
trying to goad your hypothetical
Jew at a highly public event. If
it happened on the street, then
no, I wouldn't blame him for
clocking the German guy. Also, I
find it interesting that someone
above was unwilling to give a
specific example but you not only
did but chose Jews as the victims.
\- did you miss the afrikaans one?
i didnt think an example
you would have needed to have
been from india or alegeria
would have had much currency
on the motd.
\_ I saw it. Dropping a URL and
a 2 word quote isn't nearly
the same as the 'quality'
line you came up with all
on your own. Having been on
the receiving end of that
sort of thing many times over
the years, I salute you, for
I have never heard anything
as hateful as you managed to
come up with but I still
wouldn't beat you up on
camera in front of millions
around the world over it.
\_ Coward.
\_ ... says the anonymous
coward.
Ho hum, status quo. And while
we're at it, I'm sure you'd rather
someone *say* something mean to
you than *spit* on you. I'm sure
you'll find being spat on quite
physical.
\_ Of course spit is physical. It's
also gross, and I think they all
spit too much anyway during the
games but that's just me. And yes
they claim the 4th man saw it but
they did show it in the stadium so
who can say for sure. The fact it
took so long for a card to come out
casts doubt. But yes I would blame
someone for physically attacking
someone in response to words. This
should be extremely clear cut. The
law holds this up too. Yes that
also applies to "kaffirs" and Jews.
Violence is a completely different
class of action. I would find it
*understandable* but not justified.
An attack is dangerous and should
be treated very seriously. People
can die from seemingly mild
violence. Do you support murder
of racists?
\_ Murder? Now you've gone off
into lala land. Who was talking
murder?
\_ Attacking someone can possibly
get one of you killed.
\_ You can also get hit by a
stray meteor. It isn't
murder. It is assault
and battery. And this
entire sub-thread is way
off topic. I guess you
have no response to what
I was saying so you chose
to distract instead.
\_ A stray meteor isn't
caused by a human.
Assault and battery is.
It can easily lead to
serious injury or death
and attackers know this.
I don't actually know
what your argument is.
We started with "insults
justify violence" which
I refuted. You're
jumping on this murder
thing but I was just
pointing out that
violence is serious in
a way that insults can
never be close to. This
"debate" is pretty much
off the tracks though.
Good job...
\_ Are you Jewish?
I'm the guy on the top: _/
http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/germans/akv
\- dans, is this you?
some of the writing
"i refuted..." is
consistent with your
pathologies.
\_ LAST BOY SCOUTcp
\_ God, soccer sucks. France seemed to be the better team (more
shots on goal, for example) and yet they lost because of
penalty kicks. Why not skip the whole game and just shoot
penalty kicks at the beginning? I was wholly unimpressed with
Italy throughout the tournament and yet they are the champions.
\_ I liked it. You are stupid. Keira Knightley is still flat.
\_ Hey, we tied them! We are the co-champions!! |
| 12/24 |
|
| observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1182707,00.html ZZ top World exclusive: Zinedine Zidane's journey from the rough back streets of Marseille to Madrid has been marked by racism, political controversy and superlative football. The Observer The blank, dusty streets and high-rise tower blocks of La Castellane, a council estate in the northern suburbs of Marseille, are what is officially known in French as a quartier difficile, a sensitive zone. Most of the population here are first-and second-generation immigrants. The first wave came originally from Algeria and Morocco, in the Fifties and Sixties, but the inhabitants of La Castellane now come from all other points in the French-speaking world, from sub- Saharan Africa to the Caribbean. The people in La Castellane have no problem identifying themselves with Marseille, which has always been the toughest and most deprived of French cities. You can make out the bay and old port of Marseille from practically any vantage point in La Castellane and the second generation of immigrants are proud to adopt the distinctive slang and accent of the city as their own. But still almost everybody who lives here refuses point-blank to identify themselves as French. La Castellane is the home town of Zinedine Zidane, the Real Madrid playmaker who, as he approaches his professional peak at the age of 32, is probably the most complete and gifted footballer of his generation. This opinion is pretty much universal in football, especially among those who have worked most closely with him. Aime Jacquet, the French coach whose victory in the 1998 World Cup was hammered home with two goals from Zidane in the final, claims to have recognised immediately that Zidane was a phenomenon. Luis Figo, a notorious stickler for efficiency and organisation in a team, describes his control and pace as 'extraordinary'. David Beckham, when I spoke to him, unabashedly called his colleague 'the greatest player in the world'. Even Thierry Henry, who recently lost out to Zidane for the title of Fifa World Player of the Year, admires his integrity, describing his team-mate in the France squad as 'the guy we can always count on, the one who really takes control'. If there is a criticism to be made of Zidane, it is that he does not respond well to failure and that he can drift in and out of play. Yet his technical brilliance can never be underestimated even during his quietest or darkest moments. Nowhere was this better demonstrated than in the European Cup final of 2002. Returning from suspension and battling to cast out the memory of two consecutive defeats in the final with Juventus, in 1997 and 1998, Zidane, on the stroke of half-time, lashed in a left-foot volley of almost supernatural brilliance against Bayer Leverkusen. The goal inspired Real Madrid to their ninth victory in the competition in their centenary year. In the days that followed the triumph, even the most sceptical madridistas , those diehards still faithful to the eras of Emilio Butragueno or Alfredo Di Stefano, all but bowed down before Zidane. In the past 10 years, Zinedine Zidane has claimed every top honour that the game has to offer. Most importantly, for the inhabitants of La Castellane, he has never forgotten his roots. His parents still live near the area in a large house in the only slightly posher suburb of Les Pennes-Mirabeau. One of his brothers, Farid, coaches the local team, Nouvelle Vague, which has Zidane as its life president. The kids here are grateful to him, even if they are indifferent to his status as a French national icon. His family are Algerian immigrants, so-called beurs (French slang for Arabs), and he describes himself as 'a non-practising Muslim'. Zidane's appeal transcends the religious and racial divide in one of the most tense multi-ethnic societies in Europe. Most notably, he recently came first in a poll for 'the most popular Frenchman of all time', beating the more established figures of ageing rocker Johnny Hallyday and crooner Michel Sardou. Most significant of all was the fact this poll was conducted in the Journal du Dimanche, the bestselling French equivalent of the Daily Mail. Before it was hard to talk about certain things, especially if like me you came from a difficult area or from an immigrant background. But now it tells you how France has changed and is changing. French intellectuals are usually contemptuous of sport but the novelist Philippe Sollers was only half-joking when he called for Zidane to take over as French Prime Minister. In an equally provocative mood, the influential social critic Pascal Boniface hailed Zidane's popularity as no less than the beginning of 'a new Enlightenment'. Zidane, and those close to him, claim that he rarely speaks because he is a naturally timid and modest person. He may be popular but, for most of the French public, he is also resolutely unknowable. It is difficult to imagine a place further removed from the industrial grime of La Castellane than the Real Madrid training ground, just off the Paseo de la Castellana, the long avenue that runs through the northern suburbs of Madrid. The security is tight but, once past the lines of autograph hunters, amateur photographers and lad-mag journalists looking for a story, the atmosphere among the super-rich and famous young men exercising on the several pitches or chatting in the mini-stands is surprisingly relaxed. No doubt last night's convincing victory over Sevilla in front of an ecstatic home crowd in the Estadio Santiago Bernabeu contributes to the amiable mood of the Real Madrid players. The arrival of David Beckham in an absurdly huge four-wheel drive with blacked-out windows sparks a flurry of activity as a group of girls rushes the gate. As I pass through the various dressing rooms a few minutes later, I can hear the younger Real Madrid lads teasing Beckham in Spanish. Beckham smiles, then chuckles, but he clearly does not understand. Meanwhile, at the far end of the pitch, Roberto Carlos is goofing around, practising scissor-kicks for a Brazilian television crew. As I walk over to greet Zidane near the players' tunnel, the left-back, who is obviously the joker in the Real Madrid pack, kicks a ball between us, comes over to bear-hug the French player and whispers noisily in his ear, making him laugh out loud. The gesture is no doubt meant as a reassuring signal not to take interviewers too seriously. The first thing I notice about Zidane is that for a player of such commanding elegance on the field, he is, in person, rather awkward, even gawky. He even sits delicately, like a girl, legs together, hands folded in his lap. Yet there had been no trace of this at the official press conference earlier in the day. In the face of tough questioning from European football journalists - about his contract, about last night's cup tie against Sevilla and the future of Real Madrid - Zidane, speaking in both French and Spanish, had been controlled, diffident and ironic. But when I asked him where he felt most at home, he was guarded. I have been here three years and hope to be here longer. But I am proud of where I come from and never forget the people I grew up with. Wherever I go, La Castellane is where I want to go back to. It is true that it is still a difficult area, what is called in French a quartier difficile . I think Marseille is probably a place like Liverpool, very vibrant and very tough. I know players such as Bruno Cheyrou and Anthony Le Tallec, who should do well in Liverpool for this reason. My passion for the game comes from the city of Marseille itself. Unfortunately I can't go back there as much I want to because I play a lot here and abroad. The Berbers are not Arabs and in recent years the Berbers from the Kabylie region of Algeria, which is Zidane's family's home territory, have been in open conflict with the Algerian government. There are rumours of massacre and counter-massacre, but all that is really known in the West is that more than 100,000 people have lost their lives in the civil war that has devastated the country since 1992. Despite pressure from lobby groups, Zidane has never commented on the war in public or on his Berber origins; but he is clearly pleased t... |
| www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBV52GPhNjw Worst Rated Zidane flipping out Hello, you either have JavaScript turned off or an old version of Macromedia's Flash Player. Post a Video Response Respond to this video with a video of your own--choose one you've already uploaded or make a new one! yankow (4 minutes ago) all those portuguese searching work, democracy and better life conditions in France during the 50's, 60's and 70's didn't feel insulted to become French. So i answer to that xenophobe flanelao with the name he deserves : an animal. |
| tinyurl.com/g7he3 -> www.theage.com.au/news/cricket/taunts-unbearable-says-test-tourist/2005/12/21/1135032082263.html Large font By Chloe Saltau, Perth December 22, 2005 Makhaya Ntini: "You just look at the person and say, 'You can't use those words'." Makhaya Ntini: "You just look at the person and say, 'You can't use those words'." Latest outbreak of scourge merits strongest opposition SOUTH Africa's first black cricketer, Makhaya Ntini, has spoken out against racial taunts directed at him by ugly elements of the Perth crowd on Sunday. Ntini said he expected better from cricket fans the world over after he and several other players were called "kaffirs" and "kaffir boetie" (brother of blacks). "You just look at the person and say, 'You can't use those words. You can swear to me, you can tell me my mum is so and so, but when it comes to those words nobody can take it'," he told The Age yesterday. The incident prompted the International Cricket Council to reiterate its zero tolerance stance against racism. Cricket Australia vowed that the policy would be enforced and spectators ejected should such behaviour be repeated at the Boxing Day Test in Melbourne or the third Test in Sydney. South Africa's most influential cricket figure, Ali Bacher, went a step further, calling on the ICC to ban racist fans for life. Bacher, who captained South Africa at the time of their exclusion from international competition, insisted that racist fans deserved "no leniency" from cricket's authorities. "With our background, and with all we have achieved in the new South Africa, this behaviour is abhorrent," he said. Ntini said the abuse was "absolutely uncalled for" and "unbearable". "As a South African we are united now, we are singing one song and we play sport with one heart," he said. South African team management approached match referee Chris Broad after former captain Shaun Pollock, all-rounder Justin Kemp and coloured players Ntini, Garnett Kruger and Ashwell Prince complained they were the targets of racial insults on day three of the first Test. A South African team spokesman, Moabi Litheko, confirmed the players had been called kaffirs and kaffir boeties, the latter a deeply offensive Afrikaans term used to denigrate white South Africans seen in the company of black people during the apartheid era. Ntini said he could not tell whether the abuse was coming from ex-South Africans living in Perth or Australians using offensive Afrikaans words. "You don't pick it up because people have been living here for almost their whole life now so their accents are the same. We reported that and we are very happy that Cricket Australia and the ICC are taking a stand," he said. Australian captain Ricky Ponting expressed dismay yesterday that an Australian crowd needed to be warned about racism. "Neither myself nor any of the players knew anything about this matter until a fair while after the game last night, but it's disappointing to think that would have happened." Cricket Australia anti-racism officer Peter Young said security guards at the WACA Ground had not taken action on Sunday because they did not know the words were racially insulting. He said venues around Australia were being briefed about specific insults that might not be familiar here but that are offensive to visiting players and instructed to take swift action. MCC general manager of event operations, Trevor Dohnt, said: "The key (Afrikaans) words used at the Perth game were passed on to us ... we've passed those on to our security company and anyone caught using those words will be immediately escorted out of the ground." Max Newman, an Afrikaans-speaker who moved to Melbourne six years ago, said Australians had little understanding of how offensive the term kaffir boetie was to South Africans of all backgrounds. He said it was a term of racial abuse and, when directed at Caucasians, an accusation that they were denouncing their ancestry, he said. Mr Newman said some players would interpret the abuse as suggesting their place in the side was due to politics. There was also racial trouble on the first day of the first Test when WACA officials ejected a small group in the crowd who held up a sign vilifying the Lebanese community. jpg CAPTION: Makhaya Ntini: "You just look at the person and say, 'You can't use those words'." jpg CAPTION: Makhaya Ntini: "You just look at the person and say, 'You can't use those words'." |
| www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/germans/akv Hidden links: 33. |