Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 43441
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2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/25    

2006/6/20-24 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:43441 Activity:nil
6/19    Cheney... Fucking Cheney...
        http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/19/D8IBFKU05.html
        "I don't think anybody anticipated the level of violence that
        we've encountered," Cheney said.
        http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/bushsr-iraq.htm
        "Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an
        occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not
        changing objectives in midstream, engaging in 'mission creep,'
        and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs.
        ... Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably
        still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would
        have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome."
        --George HW Bush
          \_ Note the "changing objectives in the midstream" That was 1991.
             This is now 2006.
             \_ So you're fine with the claim that our problems in Iraq,
                just like the problems in New Orleans, and even 9/11,
                were caused by a failure of imagination?  "I don't think
                anybody anticipated..." has become a sick joke in this first
                part of the 21st century.
                \_ that sentence was late in 20th centry 1991
                   \_ Stupid or trolling?...
                      \_ Uhm....yes?
             \_ Yeah, op should have just included the relevant quote, the
                part after the ellipses, although the first part was entirely
                correct in its own context.
                \_ correct for those who never bother to read any history,
                   and hubris enough to think THIS is different than anything
                   else happened before.
                   \_ what?
                   \_ what? x2
        \_ what a dick
2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/25    

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2008/11/19-23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:52045 Activity:nil
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        http://preview.tinyurl.com/68dlo3
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www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/19/D8IBFKU05.html
By TOM RAUM Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday that aggressive US action is responsible for preventing new terror attacks since the Sept. But he credited a determined offense against terrorists abroad, improved intelligence-gathering and preventive steps at home for thwarting or discouraging terror attacks on US soil. Answering questions at a National Press Club luncheon, Cheney also said that, when President Bush and he took office in January 2001, the balance of power in government was tilted in favor of Congress. The unpopular Vietnam War and the Watergate scandals allowed Congress to take more authority at the expense of the executive branch, Cheney said. He and the president believed it was important to "have the balance righted, if you will. Democratic critics of the president and even some Republicans have questioned the administration's assertion of expanded executive power in the name of combatting terrorism. These include warrantless eavesdropping by the National Security Agency, detention of suspected terrorists without charges, expanded powers under the Patriot Act and alleged secret CIA prisons overseas. Cheney defended the NSA's domestic eavesdropping program, which the administration calls its "terrorist surveillance program" as important in the war on terror, while conceding it was controversial. "We have been engaged in a debate about the wisdom of the program and whether or not it's legal, but it clearly is legal, we believe. Under the program, the NSA has been monitoring communications of Americans without obtaining warrants so long as least one of the participants is overseas and at least one is a suspected terrorist. The program, along with "very aggressive campaigns overseas," has helped to protect the country against new terror attacks, Cheney asserted. He was asked if the United States is winning the war on terrorism. "I think we've made significant progress, if you look back over the last _ nearly _ five years now." "The fact of the matter is we have been safe and secure here at home," the vice president added. Cheney said the biggest terrorism threat now "is the possibility of an Al Qaida cell armed with a nuclear weapon or a biological agent in the middle of one of our own cities." Cheney defended his comment last year, often ridiculed by administration critics, that the Iraqi insurgency was "in its final throes." He said he was referring to a series of events _ including elections and the drafting and acceptance of a new Iraqi constitution _ that he believes history will show to be pivotal. But the vice president did say that he underestimated the strength of the insurgency in some of his earlier remarks. "I don't think anybody anticipated the level of violence that we've encountered," Cheney said. He said much of the continuing violence has its roots in "the devastation" that 30 years of Saddam Hussein's iron- fisted rule "had wrought on the psychology of the Iraqi people." Asked if there was any possibility that the military draft would be restored, Cheney said, "No, none that I can see.
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www.thememoryhole.org/mil/bushsr-iraq.htm
Excerpt from "Why We Didn't Remove Saddam" by George Bush Sr. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome. I've been told that the same passage appears on page 489 of Bush and Scowcroft's book, A World Transformed (Alfred A. True to the guidelines we had established, when we had achieved our strategic objectives (ejecting Iraqi forces from Kuwait and eroding Saddam's threat to the region) we stopped the fighting. But the necessary limitations placed on our objectives, the fog of war, and the lack of "battleship Missouri" surrender unfortunately left unresolved problems, and new ones arose. We were disappointed that Saddam's defeat did not break his hold on power, as many of our Arab allies had predicted and we had come to expect. President Bush repeatedly declared that the fate of Saddam Hussein was up to the Iraqi people. Occasionally, he indicated that removal of Saddam would be welcome, but for very practical reasons there was never a promise to aid an uprising. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome. We discussed at length forcing Saddam himself to accept the terms of Iraqi defeat at Safwan--just north of the Kuwait-Iraq border--and thus the responsibility and political consequences for the humiliation of such a devastating defeat. In the end, we asked ourselves what we would do if he refused. We concluded that we would be left with two options: continue the conflict until he backed down, or retreat from our demands. The former would have split our Arab colleagues from the coalition and, de facto, forced us to change our objectives. Given those unpalatable choices, we allowed Saddam to avoid personal surrender and permitted him to send one of his generals. Perhaps we could have devised a system of selected punishment, such as air strikes on different military units, which would have proved a viable third option, but we had fulfilled our well-defined mission; As the conflict wound down, we felt a sense of urgency on the part of the coalition Arabs to get it over with and return to normal. Our prompt withdrawal helped cement our position with our Arab allies, who now trusted us far more than they ever had. We had come to their assistance in their time of need, asked nothing for ourselves, and left again when the job was done. Despite some criticism of our conduct of the war, the Israelis too had their faith in us solidified. We had shown our ability--and willingness--to intervene in the Middle East in a decisive way when our interests were challenged. We had also crippled the military capability of one of their most bitter enemies in the region. Our new credibility (coupled with Yasser Arafat's need to redeem his image after backing the wrong side in the war) had a quick and substantial payoff in the form of a Middle East peace conference in Madrid. The Gulf War had far greater significance to the emerging post-cold war world than simply reversing Iraqi aggression and restoring Kuwait. Its magnitude and significance impelled us from the outset to extend our strategic vision beyond the crisis to the kind of precedent we should lay down for the future. From an American foreign-policymaking perspective, we sought to respond in a manner which would win broad domestic support and which could be applied universally to other crises. In international terms, we tried to establish a model for the use of force. First and foremost was the principle that aggression cannot pay. If we dealt properly with Iraq, that should go a long way toward dissuading future would-be aggressors. Mounting an effective military counter to Iraq's invasion required the backing and bases of Saudi Arabia and other Arab states.