6/8     http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2006/06/08/haditha
        Sidney Blumenthal says Dubya's father "waged a secret campaign over
        several months early this year to remove Secretary of Defense Donald
        Rumsfeld ... personally asking a retired four-star general if he would
        accept the position ... The elder Bush's intervention was an
        extraordinary attempt to rescue simultaneously his son, the family
        legacy and the country."
                 \_ Although I agree that something more than a no-fly-zone
                    was necessary to protect our former allies the Kurds,
                    Invasion: Baghdad was just as bad an idea in '91 as it
                    was this time. Remember, the same cast of bad apples in
                    Bush2: Cabinet Boogaloo are the ones that got overruled at
                    the end of Gulf War I. This is their revenge, their chance
                    at vindication, and it's turned out to be an utter mess...
                    just as cooler heads predicted at the end of GWI. As for
                    Carter, are you freaking high? Carter inherited a bad
                    situation and turned it around so that when Ronnie came
                    into office in January '81, he could fuck it up for a
                    while before anyone realized he'd screwed it up. Bush2
                    inherited a budget surplus and undenied military supremacy
                    and parlayed that into gazillion dollar deficits and
                    the belief that anyone with a guerilla army can beat the
                    US military.
        \_ And we care because Dad did such a great job as President?
           \_ He did a spectacular job, in kicking Saddam out of Kuwait, having
              a global consensus, and having everyone else finance it. -Dem
              \_ And didn't finish the job.  And while we're here what are his
                 other claims to fame that make him someone worth listening to?
                 Of the President's I'm old enough to remember, only Carter was
                 a worse President than Dad.
                 \_ The "job" was to kick Saddam out of Kuwait.
                 \_ The "job" was to kick Saddam out of Kuwait and to minimize
                    him as a threat to his neighbors.  Invading Iraq had a 0%
                    probability of occurring at the time, nevermind the obvious
                    problems of occupying the country and keeping the Sunnis
                    and Shiites from killing each other.
                    I say again, regarding the Gulf War, Bush's father did a
                    spectacular job.
                    \_ So kicking Saddam out of Kuwait accomplished what
                       exactly?  Why did we care about Kuwait?  The only people
                       hurt by the fall of the Kuwaitis are the ruling family
                       and even then they just would have lived in exile with
                       their billions of dollars.  We restored hereditary oil
                       rich family to power.  Oh yay.  Success.  We also told
                       the Kurds and southern Shiites we'd support their
                       uprising and then watched them get slaughtered.  That
                       was good for US credibility.  Oh yes, it was a truly
                       spectacular job.
                 \_ Although I agree that something more than a no-fly-zone
                    was necessary to protect our former allies the Kurds,
                    Invasion: Baghdad was just as bad an idea in '91 as it
                    was this time. Remember, the same cast of bad apples in
                    Bush2: Cabinet Boogaloo are the ones that got overruled at
                    the end of Gulf War I. This is their revenge, their chance
                    at vindication, and it's turned out to be an utter mess...
                    just as cooler heads predicted at the end of GWI. As for
                    Carter, are you freaking high? Carter inherited a bad
                    situation and turned it around so that when Ronnie came
                    \_ We've been through this.  Perhaps you've heard of
                       double digit inflation?  The Misery index?  The
                       infamous Malaise Speech?  Four hundred and how many
                       days of The Hostage Crisis on TV every friggin night?
                       Carter showed the world that the US could be brought
                       to her knees by a bunch of untrained thugs with bad
                       attitudes.  Oh yeah but wait, we tied yellow ribbons
                       around everything in support and memory of the hostages.
                       Carter: best President in modern times!  Woot!  The
                       only thing he did was provide Dad a way of not being
                       the worst President in the last few decades.  GHB
                       couldn't even win a "worst of" contest.
                    into office in January '81, he could fuck it up for a
                    while before anyone realized he'd screwed it up. Bush2
                    \_ By that logic, Clinton fucked the economy and we didn't
                       see the effects until a while into Junior's term.  I
                       doubt you believe that.  That knife cuts both ways.
                    inherited a budget surplus and undenied military supremacy
                    and parlayed that into gazillion dollar deficits and
                    the belief that anyone with a guerilla army can beat the
                    US military.
                    \_ Hahaha.