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| 5/25 |
| 2006/5/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:43006 Activity:low |
5/10 Why is the troop death toll in Iraq so low? Technology! If someone's
gonna die, just stick in a feeding tube. Voila! One less death.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/10/iraq.medics
\_ so it is worse than Vietnam then.. our technology today
is just lowering the kill count
\_ "If you look at the overall death rate ... the case fatality
rate is cut in half from Vietnam to now. And again I think that's
due to better training, tactical combat casualty training,"
I dunno about worse or better. But to think about it: 2500 US
soldiers have died in about 3 years, the senior surgeon above
says that could be double without the better training, so it
potentially could have been 5000 US dead. We were in Vietnam
for ~13 years, so 4 times longer than Iraq so far means:
5000 * 4 = 20,000 hypothetical fatalities vs. ~50,000 in Vietnam.
\_ Yeah, but there are many reasons why the fatality rate
is so much lower; medical technology, training, night vision,
more effective body armor, etc. Lacking context, the
comparison doesn't really communicate very much.
\_ take into account the terrain.. the jungle was much
more difficult to spot.. in iraq it should be much easier
... we need tech to detech roadside bombs...
\_ Err, comparing the Vietnam era, draft military to the
current day armed forces is meaningless.
\_ traditionaly, we count casualties, not death.
casualties ~= death + injured + captured. By that account, we
have close to 20k casualties out of 110k+ force. The ratio is
relatively high due to the small total force committed.
\_ "Traditionally" "voila" - take any battle from any pre-vietnam
war. Learn what casualties really mean.
\_ so it is worse than Vietnam then.. our technology today
is just lowering the kill count
\_ "If you look at the overall death rate ... the case fatality
rate is cut in half from Vietnam to now. And again I think that's
due to better training, tactical combat casualty training,"
I dunno about worse or better. But to think about it: 2500 US
soldiers have died in about 3 years, the senior surgeon above
says that could be double without the better training, so it
potentially could have been 5000 US dead. We were in Vietnam
for ~13 years, so 4 times longer than Iraq so far means:
5000 * 4 = 20,000 hypothetical fatalities vs. ~50,000 in Vietnam.
\_ Yeah, but there are many reasons why the fatality rate
is so much lower; medical technology, training, night vision,
more effective body armor, etc. Lacking context, the
comparison doesn't really communicate very much.
\_ take into account the terrain.. the jungle was much
more difficult to spot.. in iraq it should be much easier
... we need tech to detech roadside bombs...
\_ Err, comparing the Vietnam era, draft military to the
current day armed forces is meaningless. |
| 5/25 |
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| www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/10/iraq.medics -> www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/10/iraq.medics/ Please, don't let me die," the US soldier said repeatedly as medics carried him to the trauma room. His glazed eyes focused on an Army chaplain kneeling over him. A roadside bomb that exploded next to his patrol vehicle sent shards of metal into his body and catapulted him from the vehicle. He, like so many of the gravely wounded soldiers in Iraq, was rushed to the 10th Combat Support Hospital, where minutes or seconds can mean life or death. Watch the suffering and hope inside a Baghdad military hospital -- 3:33) "Am I going to live?" Moments earlier, the soldier asked the medics to keep his leg from falling off the gurney as they hurried him into the emergency room. His left hand was just as bad -- a "near amputation," according to one of the doctors. Less than 5 feet away, a friend and fellow soldier lay dead, his body placed in a black body bag and zipped up. Read a behind-the-scenes report on this story) "It's life and death, every day," said Lt. These men and women -- doctors, medics and nurses, many of them just 20 or 21 years old -- have saved the lives of numerous servicemen and women who in any previous war may have come home in flag-draped coffins. CNN has withheld the names of the wounded soldiers for privacy concerns. In Iraq, roughly 17,500 US troops have been wounded, and nearly 2,500 have been killed. The survival rate is significantly higher than in previous wars, and much credit goes to those working to save lives in places such as the 10th Combat Support Hospital. the case fatality rate is cut in half from Vietnam to now. And again I think that's due to better training, tactical combat casualty training," said Col. At least eight doctors and nurses worked on the soldier with the shredded leg -- their arms and clothes drenched in his blood. Outside in the hall sat the clothes of these wounded men -- or their "battle rattle," as it's called. Flak jackets lay blown in half, boots drenched in blood. Down the hall, a private first class who was driving the vehicle was put gingerly on a bed. He was in better shape than his comrades despite bad burns on his hands and metal in his neck. Still filled with adrenaline, he breathlessly relived the attack for the nurse. "I got out through the gunner's position and got one more out." As the doctors and nurses work, the captain of the wounded soldiers' unit sat, head in hands, torn up. At times, he spoke to his commanding officer, a major, in an inaudible tone. The private called his wife and explained what happened, followed by a short smile. Steinbruner took the phone and spoke soothingly: "He's going to be fine -- you hang in there now." Steinbruner suggested putting him under anesthesia completely. "Look, I promise -- I wouldn't lie to you," Steinbruner said. Serving as both doctor and impromptu commanding officer, Steinbruner added, "Don't you dare try to die on me. Through a condensed face mask, the soldier wheezed and coughed, "Am I gonna lose the f------ leg?" The near dozen doctors, medics and nurses stopped the blood from pouring out of him and prepared to send him to surgery in an attempt to save his leg and hand. "Thank you, sir," Steinbruner said to the senior surgeon, Holcomb, while taking off his blood-drenched gloves and tossing them in the trash. The soldier survived and kept his leg for the time being. Once close to death, he is now being treated at a US military facility in Germany. "He asked me if he's going to lose his leg, and I said, 'I don't know,' " Steinbruner said minutes after working to save the soldier's life. He paused again and said, "I'm now going to go take care of his buddy." |