4/6     I'm confused.  If all the illegals become citizens and we know that
        Americans won't do the jobs the illegals have been doing then who
        will do those jobs?  Won't granting them citizenship kill the
        economy just the same as kicking them out?
        \_ it's an election year.  I don't think people are trying to solve
           the problem.  If US pardon this wave of immigrant, 5 years
           down the road US would have to pardon another wave of immigrants.
           Once we pardoned these immigrants and grant them legal working
           permit, these people can start to demand minimum wages and
           force employers to follow the federal labor standards.  If
           an employer want to keep it competitive, he would have to to
           look for more illegal immigrants to exploit.  and the cycle
           continues..
        \_ Hence the strategery.
        \_ I am an immigrant myself.  I am a bit angry at pardoning those
           illegals mainly because it is not fair for those who patiently
           waited in line and follow the system.
           \_ Perhaps we should simply brand them, like livestock.  Either
              you can enter legally, or you can be branded American.
              you can enter legally, or you can be branded American. Oh,
              and if they speak English passably, brand is "USA", otherwise,
              "Estados Unidos"
              \_ Comment on the English-speaking part.  I managed to go
                 through high school, college and grad school here in USA
                 with poor English constantly being riddiculed on MOTD.
                 Does it ever occur to you that there just might be something
                 wrong with the public education system?  Do you know that
                 people in USA gives out immigrants IQ test in ENGLISH to
                 those who just came here, marked them as retard and toss
                 them into the worse classes available in the school?
                 In my particular case, it took hard work, luck, and bribe
                 so I can attend regular English classes in high school
                 so I have a shot at the UC system?   And I was living in
                 a relatively well-off suburbs with a relatively good
                 high school in California.
               \_ my gf moved here from Poland when she was 9, and says
                  ESL classes more than a year or two are stupid, you
                  pick up English from immersion, you just gotta learn
                  it to get ahead in the United States.
                 \_ Sorry, I was writing in the tradition of "A Modest
                    Proposal".  I was not seriously advocating branding
                    illegal immigrants, nor seriously advocating torturing
                    those with bad English even more.  Just like Jonathan
                    Swift wasn't seriously advocating eating children.
                    \_ BABY EATER!
                 \_ Are you aware that so-called immigrant rights people are
                    the reason you ended up in shitty classes?  Bi-lingual
                    education advocates would have all immigrants learning
                    nothing useful to advance in society.  You have reason to
                    be angry.  You should direct it appropriately.  In an
                    English-only environment you wouldn't have had to bribe
                    anyone to get into the classes you needed to advance.
                    \_ Exactly. My parents are both immigrants and the
                       system doesn't cater to them (not even the DMV test
                       is in their native language) and they are better
                       off for it. Catering to Spanish-speakers doesn't
                       do them any favors. I remember reading a poll once
                       where Mexican immigrants said they *wanted* their
                       kids in English classes and not bi-lingual ed
                       classes, but the limousine liberals ignored that.