4/4     Hey City Utopia guy, let's say you've matured and have outgrown your
        needs to socialize with your friends and have PS2 LAN parties. Let's
        say you get a real job, settle down, get married, have kids, and
        buy a minivan. Are you still going to live in the city? Where
        are your kids gonna play? Where are you gonna park your minivan?
        Where would you go when your baby cries 12x7? Where would you
        \_ Hit the baby in the head with a shovel
        hide when your wife start nagging 24x7?
        \_ Go fuck yourself.
        \_ The issues you're describing are not unique to cities, and
           suburbs are not immune to them.
        \_ Plenty of people raise kids in cities.  It's not that hard.
           \_ Yes but city kids tend to do drugs or become gay.
              \_ Do you have any evidence of this?
                 \_ The best evidence possible: word of God through Falwell's
                    lips...
        \_ Berkeley is a suburb of SF, right?
           \_ so Oakland is chopped liver?
              \_ Do more Berkeley residents work in Oakland or SF?  Either
                 way, Berkeley is a suburb.  I wonder if Berkeley would be
                 acceptable to City Utopia guy.
              \_ "There's no 'there' there"