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| 7/12 |
| 2006/3/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants] UID:42497 Activity:nil |
3/28 "This nonsense of 'jobs Americans won't do' is an age-old lie that's
been around as long as the republic. Prior to the illegal alien
problem, the same excuse was applied to the perpetuation of slavery.
Georgia Representative James Jackson rose in opposition to a Quaker
petition to end slavery in 1790 by fuming 'that rice cannot be brought
to market without these people [slaves].' William Loughton Smith added
that slavery was an economic precondition for prosperity of his
constituents, as author Joseph Ellis noted in his book, Founding
Brothers . 'Such is the state of agriculture,' Smith said, 'that no
white man would perform the tasks.' "
http://www.philvalentine.com/IllegalAlienMyth.htm
\_ this is stupid. everyone knows 'jobs Americans won't do' means
'jobs Americans won't do at the current wages'. There will be
people willing to do almost anything if the price is high enough.
\_ And yet that keeps getting dropped in conversation. And people
keep acting as if "Americans" won't do the jobs under any
circumstance.
\_ yea, but the question is "why pay a higher wage when
someone is willing to do it at a lower wage?". It's
laws vs economics. The biggest loser? Probably black
males whose plight has been deteriorating even during
the prosperous 90s. Unemployment isn't high for other
ethnic and gender groups. If you didn't graduate from
high school, yes, your livelihood would likely be
affected by the many illegal aliens, but otherwise,
you likley won't be affected and may even benefit from a
cost standpoint.
\_ This post seems like a non sequitur to me. The point
is that the employment at the lower wages is illegal,
and talking about "jobs Americans won't do" implies
all sorts of things which is why people say that. I've
seen it raised on the motd, as in "how are you gonna
get fresh produce???!11/??"
\_ yea, and slavery was legal, so please explain
how the comparison with slavery makes sense.
\_ slavery was an abomination and is now outlawed
everywhere in the world but places you'd never set
foot in. what does the legal status of slavery in
this country 150+ years ago in _some_ states have to
do with whether or not slavery is ok or the price of
berry picking or anything else today?
\_ exactly, thus the quote op posted is stupid.
\_ So the point is 'Jobs American's won't do (for how little we want
to pay )'. However, if the employery were to offer to pay what
it would take to get Americans to work them, would those jobs
still exist?
\_ If they need to exist. Some would and some would not. The
net effect is more jobs for "Americans", although perhaps
fewer jobs overall.
\_ nah, it will further increase cost of doing business in
the US, and trigger more outsourcing, and moving of
factories and jobs overseas.
\_ You can't outsource most of these kinds of jobs or
that would've already been done. These people are
maids, day laborers, farm hands, and the like. Some
businesses will fold because of the increased cost of
doing business and some won't. Mostly, I think it
will be the same amount of $$$ spread out across
fewer employees in aggregate.
\_ I don't know. The janitorial and cafeteria
people at my company are all hispanics. So are
the people keeping the company's lawn looking good,
as are the movers, drivers, etc. Cost of
doing business will increase as living costs
increase. Nobody is talking about outsourcing
these jobs, but the rise in cost of doing
business. As it is, we aren't having an
easy time competing with China and India.
\_ Well, someone above *did* write "trigger more
outsourcing" and "mov[e]... factories and jobs
overseas." I imagine the cafeteria staff at your
company is not comprised of illegal aliens.
Gardeners may be. I know that it costs a lot more to
have a gardener in places w/o a lot of illegals,
even in places where the cost of living is much
lower. So fewer people will have gardeners and the
gardeners that are hired will make more money, but
will probably be better gardeners. I know an
old-time tree trimmer and his company has been
driven to the brink of bankruptcy by competition
with illegal aliens who aren't arborists, but who
charge 1/3 the price for the work such as they
do it. The cost of doing business will increase,
but so will the average wage. More money will
stay in the USA, instead of being sent to family
abroad. Somehow Europe manages to stay competitive
despite higher wages and a higher standard of
living. Competing with China and India on price
alone is a recipe for disaster, anyway. Maybe
people wouldn't need to shop at Wal-Mart for
Chinese-made crap if they had more money in
their pockets.
\_ Yes, the costs will rise. Or they won't. And we'll
go on with life.
\_ life's pretty good as it is today.
\_ life was pretty good with slavery.
\_ slaves did not come voluntarily. |
| 7/12 |
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| www.philvalentine.com/IllegalAlienMyth.htm Illegal Immigration And The Big Lie January 20, 2006 Illegal aliens are doing the work that Americans won't do. We've heard that mantra over and over again from people who want to ignore the epidemic of illegal immigration. They rationalize the activity of hiring illegal aliens by claiming they can't find willing American citizens to do the job. We've even heard that phrase drop from the lips of President Bush. Would you work behind the counter at McDonald's for $300,000 a year? Then these aren't jobs Americans won't do, they're jobs Americans won't do for the money . This nonsense of jobs Americans won't do is an age-old lie that's been around as long as the republic. Prior to the illegal alien problem, the same excuse was applied to the perpetuation of slavery. William Loughton Smith added that slavery was an economic precondition for prosperity of his constituents, as author Joseph Ellis noted in his book, Founding Brothers . Such is the state of agriculture, Smith said, that no white man would perform the tasks. Pierce Butler of South Carolina demanded the security the southern states want is that their Negroes may not be taken from them. I can't tell you how many times I've heard foremen on job sites refer to the Latino workers as my Mexicans. Illegal immigrants aren't slaves, to be sure, but the pervading attitude toward them from those who cherish their cheap labor is strikingly similar. They're more like indentured servants, their legal status held over their heads to keep their wages down. So, why don't we simply free these people through some sort of amnesty program? We should not reward people, no matter how compelling their plight, for breaking the laws to enter this country while a good three-fourths of foreign workers in America have played by the rules and entered legally. This second-class citizen attitude toward blue collar Mexicans is evident not only in America but in the highest echelon of the Mexican government. Reprobate Mexican President Vicente Fox made a slip of the tongue recently when he said illegal aliens are doing the work that not even blacks want to do. Fox looks down on these people just like he looks down on blacks. Because with such a determination to find a better life, were they forced to stay in Mexico they just might oust his sorry butt from office. The United States House of Representatives has passed a comprehensive bill to deal with the illegal alien problem. Although it's not perfect, it begins to undo some of the damage done by the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, namely stiffening the penalties for hiring illegal aliens and returning the power to the states to clamp down even harder by enforcing their own state labor laws. Prior to the 1986 act in places like Tennessee companies lost their license to do business in the state if they hired illegal aliens. This new law awaits passage by the US Senate and a signature from President Bush. If we're serious about comprehensive immigration reform, this is the bill and now is the time. Make sure we speak with one voice and loud enough to be heard in Washington, DC. |