3/27 http://csua.org/u/fco
"Due to its size, the protest shocked the American media. A wave of
500,000 people pouring through Los Angeles is one of the largest
protests in the history of the whole country. Thus, the protests have
been reported as an extraordinary reaction to events in American
politics. But they are not extraordinary at all. They are just the
typical way that governments are influenced in many Latin American
nations.
"What the protests truly represent is the colonization of America by
the Latin style of politics. Rally, demonstration, march and protest
are the tools of the politically dispossessed. They carry with them the
intrinsic threat that is always associated with the gathering of large
crowds in acts of political demonstration. And they are standard fair
in the lopsided politics of many foreign nations, including Mexico."
\_ props to George Will on this issue:
"Morality without practicality is immorality."
\_ The INS shoulda posted up at the protest and started carding people.
\_ Deine pässe, bitte.
\_ Why do Republicans hate democracy?
...and brown people?
\_ Why you do troll?
...poorly?
\_ It's not a troll. It is, however, rhetorical. This racist
spew is truly disgusting.
\_ One guy gets quoted and all people of the same party are
evil racist stalinists? It's a troll. Sounds, smells,
looks, walks and talks like a troll. It collects tolls
at bridges. It's a troll.
\_ _This guy_ is spewing racist crap. I think you would
find more R's than others who would think it sounds
reasonable. I also think there are many other ways
that R's dis democracy to a greater extent than others.
This columnist has the distinction of crossing both
lines. Republicans == racist was your leap, not mine.
\_ Ok, I'll ask out right: do you think Republicans
are racist? Assume that Republican = follows the
party line.
\_ I think everyone is racist. Period. I think
many people struggle against it, some more
successfully than others. This columnist is
failing his struggle. Sensenbrenner failed
his struggle long ago and gave up.
\_ let me see... white can buy American oil company,
but yellow can't. white and yellow can operate
sea ports, but brown arab people can't... hmm...
i don't know. it is pretty even so far.
\_ Only Republicans were against the Uncol and
UAE deals? Hmm.. maybe you need to take off
those blinders.
\_ Yes, if a country oppresses its poor and powerless, it eventually
leads to tension and strife. Protests are exactly that, protests.
\_ The threatened legislation would do more than oppress poor and
powerless people. Just wait till the senior engineer on
your project who happens to be a German or Korean or Indian
citizen suddenly turns up in jail with a *felony* arrest
because he fucked up some paperwork. This kind of shit will
destroy American science if it's not turned around. Regardless
of how you may feel about poor mexican immigrants, this
xenophobia represents a clear and present danger to the
continued technical dominance of the united states.
I've already seen top European scientists turn down U.S.
offers partly because they were tired of being treated like
criminals in the post-911 paranoia.
\_ 1. Poor Mexican *illegal* immigants. 2. This happened
to one of my girlfriend's film students. He went on
vacation to Mexico and ended up in jail in Texas (and
was later deported). No issues if you immigrate like you
should. Both my parents came here from Europe. My dad
came illegally and was later deported (and then came back
legally). Why do Latin American immigrants think they are
so special? --dim
\_ You either don't know what you're talking about or are
intentionally stating falsehoods. None of the staff
scientists, grad students or post docs I work with are
illegal immigrants from Latin America. But I would say
that due to the vile idiocy of U.S. immigration laws
and the incompetence and stupidity of the people in the
embasies who carry out those laws more than half of the
scientists I know have had serious problems with their
visa status which caused them to either get stuck outside
of the U.S. or to be "illegal" for some number of
days/weeks while the paperwork got straightened out.
Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about illegal
mexican immigrants, but when a bunch of flag-waving
republican morons decide they're going to start
throwing scientists in jail it threatens everyone.
\_ Well, I don't know. jblack seems to like it. Less
competition with the minorities he despise of.
\_ Why are you blaming the laws when it's obvious
that the scientists are at fault here? Since I
work for NASA, I can concur that 'foreign
nationals' are treated poorly here, although not
as poorly as when our guys go to, say, France.
However, if they end up in jail because their
paperwork wasn't in order then whose fault is that?
\_ I just don't know what to say to that. First
of all, I'm guessing you're a sysadmin and not
a real scientist, which would explain your attitude.
Second of all, if you actually bothered to talk to
foreign scientists you'd learn that there is a
random element to the visa process that goes beyond
just doing the paperwork the way you're told,
and can lead to month long delays getting back into
the U.S. for reasons that are *never* explained.
Third of all, our country is number one in the
world in science largely because these people
*want* to be here. The losers will always be
willing to work here, but the top guys are all
turning down offers from other countries when
they come here, and if you start throwing absent
minded academics in jail for not filling out some
\_ I just don't know what to say to that. First of
all, I'm guessing you're a sysadmin and not a
real scientist, which would explain your
attitude. Second of all, if you actually
bothered to talk to foreign scientists you'd
learn that there is a random element to the visa
process that goes beyond just doing the
paperwork the way you're told, and can lead to
month long delays getting back into the U.S. for
reasons that are *never* explained. Third of
all, our country is number one in the world in
science largely because these people *want* to
be here. The losers will always be willing to
work here, but the top guys are all turning down
offers from other countries when they come here,
and if you start throwing absent minded
academics in jail for not filling out some
\_ maybe we should get rid of traffic laws. those
absent minded scientists might be inclined to
speed, or drive on the wrong side of the road,
or something, which might get their license
revoked, interfering with their ability to go
to their scientist lab. they might get fed up
with it and go home and then we are doomed.
Or the dimwits might forget to pay for stuff
at the store. Or maybe the retards will drive
over some children on the way to work while
pondering the frequency of baldness among
condom users.
\_ I support the death penalty for car drivers.
\_ I support the death penalty for whiny
wanna-be extremists.
forms, they're not going to come here, and I can't
blame them. I could say something about what
most scientists think about their local sysadmins,
but I'll hold my tongue.
\_ Maybe they can go do research in Europe. LOL!
Having talked to 'real scientists' who are
working in Europe (and Japan) I can tell
you that if they go there then they get
what they deserve. Your complaint is about
the process, not about the law. As for the
rest of your comments, you're obviously
a poseur asshole who thinks much too highly
of himself. You should hear what most scientists
say about their fellow scientists!
\_ And finally, fuck you. I've had enough
flame wars with your dumb ass over the years
to know when to quit.
\_ I figured that you were full of shit
and didn't know what you were talking
about. Now I don't even have to guess.
I'm going to bet that you have absolutely
no idea what life in academia is like in
Europe. You're just pissed because
your advisor spent the weekend in
jail because he figured that being an
important scientist was enough to
get him back into the USA from Budapest.
\_ Fuck you.
\_ So you insulted an entire segment of the
tech world on a tech message board of a
tech student group and then get all pissy
when you got corrected and the poor dumb
sysadmin/non-scientist didn't bow down to
your superior godly scientistness? For
someone so snarky you've got a really
thin skin. Don't dish it out if you
can't take it. --someone else
\_ And fuck you as well.
\_ And fuck you as well. Let me clarify.
I hate sysadmins, I hate academics,
I hate other scientists, I hate dipshit
net dorks who use the word "snarky",
I hate fat stupid SoCal republicans,
and I hate you. So fuck off. If
fuckwits like dim want to destroy
America they can go ahead. I have
contingency plans for that.
\_ Oh my God! You have a career
in comedy if science doesn't
work out! --dim
\_ My career in science will last
just long enough to earn the
money to buy the
land I need to get off the
grid and away from you fuckers.
You won't take me without a
fight. In 21 months I'll be
trolling the motd from a
fortified compound in a remote
location via sattelite uplink.
Did I mention fuck
you? Oh, yeah. Fuck you.
\_ At first I thought I was
going to be Thin Skinned
Guy's #1 Fan, then you
turned into Weak Troll Guy.
--sad that Thin Skinned
Guy was really Weak
Troll Guy and unworthy
of fandom
\_ Fuck you.
\_ I was thinking something similar when watching the protests
over high gas prices in SE Asia. It's a very naive and ineffective
form of influencing government. In many cases (as with gas prices)
it's not really clear what the government is supposed to do in
response. I don't see it as very sophisticated, or even
effective, politics.
\_ Did Vincent Fox secretly sponsors the protests?
\_ i thought Thailand government is at blink of collapse due to
massive protest, no??
\_ You can bet when they gather to protest pending legislation,
that legislators pay attention. Especially in that kind of
numbers.
\_ Maybe, but if it was more routine (as in, say, Latin
America) it would be less effective.
\_ really? didn't people power rid the filipines of Marcos?
\_ Did Vincent Fox sponsor the protests?
\_ I was talking to a Mexican guy I know, and I said something about
Bush being a dumbass. He said that you can only call Bush a
dumbass if you've never heard Fox give a speech in Spanish.
He claimed that Fox raises politician stupidity to new heights.
\_ So when the Promise Keepers gathered on The Mall, was that
an intrinsic theat, too?
\_ No. The Million Man March, however...
\_ Which was not even a Million.
\_ Estimates ranged from, what 470k to 1.04M?
\_ fyi, this was the 2nd largest protest in American history, second
to the pro-choice march in DC in '04 with attendance of ~ 1 mill
\_ BTW, I live 8 miles from downtown LA and didn't even notice
anything until I saw the news. In short, who cares about how
many protested? It all gets the same PR whether it's 8, 80,
or 800,000.
\_ Sure it was. But how many were U.S. citizens? This is important
distinction.
\_ Having laws that are not enforced is worse than having no
laws. I think the best way to stop illegal immigration is to
\_ How do you feel about the speed limit?
\_ speed limit is a good example of the above claim.
punish the employers who hire them, coupled with deportation of
the illegal immigrants. I support the protests against stupid
inhumane ineffective laws targetting exclusively the illegal
immigrants. What we have today with a economic carrot asking
them to come and unenforceable laws that try to prevent them
from coming is stupid. We need to take away the carrot, or
make it only available to those who come legally.
punish the employers who hire them.
\_ You can away some carrots, but there's too many rabbits
and they'll eat anything they can find and they will multiply
like crazy until they run out of food.
\_ it's like pigs vs rabbits. the pigs don't wanna do
any work, but just want to eat and get fat. yet, the
pigs are messy and leave leftovers all over the place,
and their are too lazy to clean up, so the rabbits
come and eat them. |
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