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2024/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/22   

2006/3/24-25 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:42406 Activity:moderate
3/24    Has anyone locked in prices for the Natural Gas?  This
        "Energy Saving Corp" sales person visited my house yesterday
        asking me to lock in for 5 years.  Last month price was
        $1.0 per thermal unit, and over the last two years, it
        varied from $0.6 to $1.2.  Their plan is to have me lock in
        at $1.2 for 5 years, and they say Gas price is going to just
        go up and up.  Anyone did this before?  Recommendations?
        \_ How much do you like betting?  This is basically a bet with
           their company that prices are going to be above/below $1.2.
           Is it a good bet?  I don't know.  Are you willing to research
           it?  I bet they have--they've got a lot of money riding on it.
           You, on the other hand, only have a little money on it.  It's
           also possible this is just a scam.  --PM
        \_ If they realy believed gas was just going to go up and up, would
           they give you this deal?
           \_ perhaps from a gas producer perspective, they would want
              a more stable price so they can make the proper planning
              and investments, and for that they would sign futures
              contract with their customers, and the customers would
              then want to do so with their customers, and so on.
        \_ This screams "SCAM!" to me.  You can't win.  Let's say prices
           remain about your lock in number.  Ok, nothing happens.  Let's
           say prices drop like a rock and you're locked in at a much higher
           rate for *years*.  You're screwed.  Let's say prices sky rocket
           and this company is now forced to sell you product at less than
           their price so they lose money every time you use gas.  They file
           for bankruptcy and you're back paying the same price as everyone
           else.  You can't win.
           \_ I suppose if you really wanted a hedge against gas prices you
              could just buy gas futures.
              \_ I suspect his monthly/year gas usage isn't high enough to
                 cover his costs/wins/losses either way by investing in gas
                 futures.  The company has done way more research than he
                 possibly could and is certain gas prices are going to stay
                 low enough they can make a profit off him, likely a very
                 hefty profit.
        \_ Thanks for all your advice.  One other consideration is that,
           perhaps this is irrational, but I find paying higher prices than
           everyone else more painful than paying higher prices with everyone
           else.  The pain would also outweigh the joy I would get from paying
           a lower price than everyone else.  Thanks again, you guys are
           great!
        \_ Wow.  After a little looking it seems it is definitely a scam:
           (Not the company you mentioned but they're in trouble too)
         http://www.ontariotenants.ca/electricity/articles/2004/ch204e16.phtml
2024/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/22   

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Cache (8192 bytes)
www.ontariotenants.ca/electricity/articles/2004/ch204e16.phtml
Web site search Direct Energy Part Two: "Get the hell off my porch" Door-to-door agents were told they would make a lot of money -- quick. Telemarketers were instructed to "disarm" homeowners with small talk, such as chatting about the weather. "It was a one-day training course and at the end of the day, you got a card with your picture on it. The instructions were simple: Sell household utility contracts, lots of them -- and fast. New recruits on the sales force were told to move as many electricity and gas deals as they could on doorsteps across Ontario. Agents knew the more they sold, the more they would get paid, but somewhere in that chain, rules were broken and regulations sidestepped. Information obtained by the Herald -- from interviews with former employees and internal documents used to train agents -- show the company's methods have walked a fine line between aggressive marketing and deceptive tactics. Former employees say it was all too easy for agents to cross that line. "There was a real loss of control," said Williams, who left the company before it was fined by Ontario in 2003 for forging the signatures of homeowners on energy contracts. Direct Energy has since pledged to clamp down on its recruits. Agents caught breaking the law in Ontario would be fired, the company said last year. "I can assure you that this is not going to reoccur in Alberta," said Paul Massara, vice-president of North American operations for Direct Energy's parent company, Centrica. "We've acknowledged these events and we've taken detailed steps to make sure they don't reoccur." Former employees, however, say Direct Energy pushes its agents hard to sell contracts. In 2001, the company was on a drive to sign up new customers in Ontario with the goal of becoming the biggest energy retailer in the province. By signing with the company, consumers would be switched over to Direct Energy from their existing utility. Direct Energy's contracts allow homeowners to buy electricity or natural gas at fixed rates over a period of several years, rather than be exposed to fluctuating market prices. The contracts can create winners or losers, depending on the circumstances. If energy prices skyrocket, consumers who sign up can find themselves buying gas and power at below market rates. On the other hand, if energy prices drop below the contract's fixed rate, those same consumers can end up overpaying. Direct Energy has staked its growth in Alberta on selling large numbers of the gas and electricity deals, just as it did in Ontario. "The bottom line is making money," said Janaprakash Devan, a former regional manager for the company in Hamilton, Ontario. But the way those contracts have been marketed has been questioned. Throughout its door-to-door sales scripts in Ontario, there was a focus on getting homeowners to produce copies of their old utility bills. If a consumer said they wanted to wait and check out other offers before signing up, an agent was to respond by asking for the bill. "You can continue to pay more for your electricity with no price guarantee or you can register now, pay less and have price protection that will last for five years," the scripts say. "All you need to start is one of your recent electricity bills, could you get one now please?" Should a consumer mention they're satisfied with their current electricity or gas provider, agents would use a similar response. "Your local electric company will continue to serve and bill you as always. All you need to start is one of your recent electricity bills," agents were told to say. In all, the Direct Energy's sales scripts provided agents with 17 different doorstep scenarios. Of those, 15 responses instructed agents to ask the customer to produce their utility bill. Showing the paperwork, consumers were told, helps the agent point out certain lines on the page where the customer could save money. However, many consumers who produced their bills were surprised and angered when they later became customers of Direct Energy, although they hadn't signed a contract. Listed on the bills was confidential information, such as account numbers and data on energy consumption, as well as addresses and names. "Think of the information on your utility bill like your credit card statement," said Tom Adams, head of Ontario consumer watchdog Energy Probe. "You wouldn't go around showing your credit card number to people." The company's policies didn't promote unauthorized enrolments, but agents knew exactly what the information could be used for. "You need that part of the bill in order to get the utilities to release that customer to Direct Energy," said Williams. During agent training, the company implied techniques that could be used to "wheedle the bill out of the customer," he said. "And, of course, once the people were on the road they could come up with their own techniques on how to get that bill." Williams quit his job after a dispute over contracts he sold to friends and colleagues, including his boss at the building-supply store. The contracts promised one price for natural gas, but when the bills began arriving, Direct Energy was charging a much higher rate. "It was upsetting when your friends are getting shafted," he said. When Ontario consumers began to complain about Direct Energy forging contracts, the company said the problems were the work of a few rogue agents. Direct Energy said the agents responsible were contractors working for an independent third-party company, over which it had limited control. But Williams observed no difference between the contractor who managed Direct Energy agents and the company itself in terms of how employees were treated or trained. When authorities in Ontario, Georgia and Michigan penalized Direct Energy and Energy America in 2002-03 for enrolling consumers illegally, they refused to let the companies blame individual agents for the problems. Officials in Manitoba reached a similar decision in 2002. Direct Energy's Manitoba subsidiary, Municipal Gas, was sanctioned after agents were caught using graphs that suggested heating prices would skyrocket in an effort to help sell contracts. Company brochures given to homeowners at the start of 2001 said natural gas prices -- which had risen to a record $12 per gigajoule (a standard measure of gas) at the time -- would soar beyond $14 within two years. Homeowners who signed contracts with the company soon found they were paying far more for natural gas than their neighbours who hadn't enrolled. The data on the brochures was inflammatory and misleading, the Manitoba Public Utilities Board ruled. The regulator put the blame on the company, not the agents who delivered the sales pitch. It was not "an agent problem," said Gerry Barron, executive director of the board. Sales agents in Georgia were also shown how to coerce consumers through telemarketing scripts approved by Direct Energy's US affiliate, Energy America. Prospective customers were told the fixed-rate contracts being offered were part of a special deal only they -- and maybe a few of their neighbours -- were getting. "Energy America wanted me to call you personally to talk to you about our Price Protection Program, which is only being offered to a select few customers in the Georgia area," agents were told to say. At the top of the script, spelled out in capital letters, agents were instructed to "DISARM THE CUSTOMER" by using small talk, such as chatting about the weather. Once the customer's guard was down, the next step was to "be enthusiastic" and "sell the benefits," the scripts instructed. If the customer hesitates -- or wants to talk to their spouse first -- tell them there is no risk by signing up now and discussing the terms later. "So let's go ahead and get you locked into that low fixed rate today, OK?" From there, agents were told to get the customer's account numbers and other important information such as full names and birthdates. In numerous recordings of the telemarketing calls in Georgia, consumers were told to find a copy of their bill and read the information over the phone for confirmation. All it took, say investigators who worked their way ...