3/18    Any reccomendations on books that give accurate data on what % of your
        salary should go where (rent/mortage,bills,savings,food)?
        \_ What are we... in the 50s era where a person should spend a hard
           % of time doing laundry, cooking, rationing, and shit? The rule
           of thumb is you are responsible for your actions and consequences
           and you do what is best to minimize current AND future pains and
           maximize current AND future pleasures. The rule of thumb is, life
           should get a bit better and better as you get older, not the other
           way around. For example, let's say you do weed all day long and
           enjoy your time in your 20s. Since you wasted time, you probably
           won't enjoy your future. On the other hand you can stay in school
           a bit longer and deal with a lot of bullshit but when you graduate
           you'll find it slightly easier to get jobs/connections/whatever.
           How much pain/pleasure for now? As a rule, you should be as frugal
           as possible, and try to tolerate as much pain as possible in
           in beginning. Look at my mainland Chinese friends. 5 engineers are
           living in a 1 bedroom in Fremont to save money/utility/etc, and
           after only a few years they'll be able to put down 10-20% downpay
           for typical Santa Clara homes (typical meaning built in the 50s,
           really run down and need a lot of repairs, small, and still
           over $750K). If on the other hand I lived with them, I'd be
           depressed because I grew up in the US and I've been spoiled.
           My tolerance for pain is low and I totally need instant
           gratification. So the rule of thumb is you do what you
           can to tolerate pain and be a Jew for as long as you can.
           can to tolerate pain and be a Chinese for as long as you can.
           The money you save will be very handy when you're getting married,
           buying a home, raising up a child, buying a minivan, whatever.
        \_ My rule of thumb is that food, bills and rent should be less than
           40%, and the rest goes to student loans till that's paid off, then
           it all goes to stockpiling survival gear until I have enough to quit
           the System and live in my cabin in the deep woods.  YMMV.
        \_ I can't recommend any particular books for this, but I can tell you
           that the general rule of thumb is you should not spend more than
           1/3 of your monthly gross income on your monthly rent or mortgage
           payment.  As for the other things, try keeping a budget for two
           months.  Track *everything* you buy, no matter how small.  Then
           look over your budget and see where you might reasonably make
           changes.  One of the common things people find in recent years when
           they perform this exercise is that they are spending a ridiculous
           amount of money on coffee. -dans
           \_ That rule of thumb doesn't really make sense in the Bay Area
              where incomes are higher and so are housing costs. You can
              spend more if you make more and still have plenty to live
              off of. -ausman
              \_ Not if you plan to retire at 65 and continue living in the
                 life style you are accustomed to. -dans
                 \_ Actually, by 65 your house should be paid off.
                    Is this really that hard to figure out? Let's say
                    I make $50k/yr as a sysadmin in Atlanta, where I can
                    buy a house for $1000/mo, leaving me $3000/mo to live
                    on, or live in the Bay Area and make $100k/yr and buy
                    a house for $5000/mo, leaving me $3000/mo to live on.
                    How can I save faster for retirement on the Atlanta
                    $3k/mo than on the SF $3k/mo? -ausman
                    \_ because, according to Mr. Dim Wit, you can buy a huge
                       McMansion in Atlanta where you're far away from stupid
                       city folks, where you'll be able to listen to country
                       music as loud as you want without stupid Bay Area
                       Socialists knocking on your doors. And since you'll
                       be far from stupid city folks you'll have a better
                       quality of life and work better and live longer.
                    \_ Totally flawed thinking. By 45 you're old and
                       overpaid and companies will try to find whatever
                       excuse they can to replace you with smarter, more
                       knowledgeable kids, or really smart and cheap
                       Indians to replace your position that was once
                       considered sacred but now all too easy to replace with.
                    \_ I don't think the pay's necessarily commensurate, but
                       there are other compensations to high COL areas, e.g.
                       some goods are fairly fixed in price across the US:
                       cars, computers, etc.
                    \_ Are you seriously suggesting that the salary for a
                       sysadmin in SF is double that of a sysadmin in Atlanta?
                       -dans
                      \_ Are you being obtuse on purpose? The paragraph
                         was proceeded by a "let's say." I seriously
                         suggest that a sysadmin in th Bay Area makes
                         more than one in Atlanta, meaning that you
                         can spend more on housing and still have the
                         same amount left over for living expenses. -ausman
        \_ Spend less than you make.  Savings are good.  --dbushong
           \- maybe you should initially worry about what you agg savings
              percentage is rather than the composition. some people
              might pay more rent and live in manhattan and not have
              a $75k car ... others might may half the rent and have
              a commuter and a fun car. now if you agg saving is too
              low, then maybe you need to do some budget accounting and
              see where the money is going. it's like an analogy to
              dieting .. if you have 12% body fat and can run a 6min
              mile, you dont need to worry about your diet ... if you
              are a chubb, then maybe you should figure out where the
              colaries are coming from.
              a car ... others might pay half as much rent but own +75k
              in cars. now if you agg saving is too low, then maybe you
              need to do some budget accounting and see where the
              money is going. consider and analogy to dieting and exercise
              ... if you have 12% body fat and can run a 6min mile, you dont
              need to worry about your diet ... if you are a chubb,
              then maybe you should figure out where the colaries are
              coming from. additionally there is the temporal compotent ...
              somebody with $50k yr job in retail and no debt vs somebody
              making a comaprable salary with +$100k in medical school
              debt are in verfy diff positions obviously in teh med/long
              terms but in teh short term this also has different implication
              for how much discretionary income they are likely to have.
              \_ That was rather rambling and incoherent, and shouldn't it have
                 been in reply to the main thread, not the "you should save"
                 one?