Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 42196
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

2006/3/12 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:42196 Activity:high 80%like:42200
3/11    Americans full of contradictions, and as stupid as ever:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060312/ap_on_re_us/abortion_views
        \_ Stupid?  Why?  Because a bunch of them don't share your black/white
           views on a very complex and highly charged topic?  If only the
           world was really as simple as you see it....
           \_ The OP is not alone.  http://www.slate.com/id/2137775
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

You may also be interested in these entries...
2010/11/19-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:53989 Activity:nil
11/19   "Millionaires to Obama: Tax us" - Yahoo! News:
        http://www.csua.org/u/s1d
        \_ People to Millionaires:  "You can submit as much tax as you like!"
           http://www.fms.treas.gov/news/factsheets/gifts.html
           \_why pay more into SS if you are getting the same out of it as the other guy?
             \_ Your reading comprehension sucks.  If they want to be taxed
	...
2009/9/29-10/8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:53414 Activity:nil
9/29    "Shanghai Black Girl Lou Jing Abused By Racist Netizens"
        http://www.asianoffbeat.com/default.asp?Display=2072
        "After Lou Jing's mother was married, she had sex with a black man.
        The black man returned back to the United States, left Lou Jing's
        mother pregnant with her. After Lou Jing was born, mother divorced the
        original husband, alone raising this special girl."
	...
2009/9/17-24 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:53374 Activity:nil
9/17    "Teen Birth Rates Higher in Highly Religious States"
        http://www.csua.org/u/p2y (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ God wants more children.             -garrido
        \_ Abortion Rates Higher in Non-Religious States.
           \_ http://www.publicchristian.com/?p=734
        \_ White conservative girls are hotter, so guys pursue them more
	...
2009/8/12-20 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:53267 Activity:nil
8/10    From Aug 9th minutes:
        "Evelyn is resigning as President. Jesse will take over all duties of
        the president, temporarily."
        So, I've been around for a while (since F03), and seen 3 csua pres-
        idents resign now.  For those of you who have been here (much) longer
        than me, is this pretty common every two years or so? -mrauser
	...
2008/11/6-13 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:51863 Activity:moderate
11/6    Does anyone know why most of the coastal counties are anti prop 8
        and most of the inland counties are for prop 8?
        http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/individual/#CAI01
        \_ Because people who live near the coast tend to be more wealthy
           and worldly, while people stuck inland tend to be landlocked
           hicks.
	...

	...

	...
2008/10/24-28 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:51669 Activity:nil
10/24   Palin: "I don't know" if abortion clinic bombers are terrorists
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27343688
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hu1NeI4M1k
        \_ I am so pro Abortion.  Abortions for all!
           \_ Miniature american flags for others...
        \_ Bombing for Jesus! Talk about moral relativism!
	...
2008/10/13-15 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:51491 Activity:nil
10/12   Obama's affair, you heard it here first:
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2104254/posts
        \_ Is this really more newsworthy than rumors that McCain
           is really a chupacabra?  Because you heard that first here as
           well.
        \_ Dittohead Desperation Level: Magenta
	...
Cache (5378 bytes)
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060312/ap_on_re_us/abortion_views
AP Poll: Americans Inconsistent on Abortion By NANCY BENAC, Associated Press Writer Sun Mar 12, 6:57 PM ET WASHINGTON - For all the recent tumult over abortion, one thing has remained surprisingly stable: Americans have proved extremely consistent in their beliefs about the procedure -- and extremely conflicted in their views. Yet most support at least some restrictions on when abortions can be performed. Most think having an abortion should be a personal choice. "Rock solid in its absolutely contradictory opinions" is how public opinion expert Karlyn Bowman describes the nation's mind-set. If public opinion is stable, the political landscape is anything but. The arrival of two new justices on the Supreme Court has stoked speculation about how abortion laws could be affected. Also, there has been a flurry of action at the state level to ban or sharply restrict access to the procedure. In 2005, states enacted 52 measures to restrict access to abortion, according to the private Guttmacher Institute, and more are pending. Most notably, South Dakota this month outlawed almost all abortions. Supporters hope the move will provoke a legal challenge that results in the new, more conservative Supreme Court overturning Roe. Even with the new justices, however, there still are five votes to uphold the 1973 landmark ruling that established a woman's right to an abortion. There is no evidence that all this activity is causing Americans to rethink their views. "When we as a society make up our minds about something, as we have about abortion, most people tend to pull away from it," says Bowman, an American Enterprise Institute fellow who has studied abortion opinion over the decades. "Something really significant has to occur to bring Americans back into the debate." An AP-Ipsos poll finds that most Americans are ensconced in what one policy analyst calls the "big mushy middle" on this issue. In this latest poll, 19 percent of Americans said abortion should be legal in all cases; That left nearly three-fifths somewhere in between, believing abortion should be legal only under certain circumstances. Dicing the same data a different way, 52 percent of those surveyed thought abortion should be legal in most or all cases; With slight shifts one way or another, this is about where Americans have been for decades. "You have this very stable support for a principle, but a willingness to limit it in lots of circumstances over the last decade," said Robert Blendon, professor of health policy and political analysis at Harvard's School of Public Health. If Americans are fairly set in what they think, the challenge for interest groups and politicians is to frame the debate in ways that will alter how people vote, whether they get involved and to whom they contribute money. Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, said recent activity has served as a wake-up call to supporters who had not felt that abortion rights were threatened. She said the organization has seen an increase in interest that could translate into a shift in votes in future elections. National Right to Life Committee , said the discussion about a late-term procedure that opponents call "partial-birth abortion" has helped solidify anti-abortion sentiment. The Supreme Court will hear arguments this fall on a federal ban of the procedure; a ruling is likely next year as the presidential campaign gets under way. With all the recent activity, abortion is more likely than ever to play a central role in coming elections, and political consultants of all stripes are pondering how to use it to best advantage. In the AP poll, two-thirds of Democrats said abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while two-thirds of Republicans said it should be illegal all or most of the time. Bowman said that about 9 percent to 13 percent of voters tend to cast their ballots based on a candidate's stance on abortion, with Republicans tending to benefit the most from these single-issue voters at the national level while results are more mixed in state races. The recent developments could be significant in rallying voters, particularly in off-year elections, she said. Jim Kessler, vice president for policy at Third Way, a strategy group for moderate Democrats, said anti-abortion forces made significant inroads during the 1990s by appealing to what he calls the "abortion grays" -- those in the middle who do not think abortion should be completely legal or illegal. They did this, he said, by pushing restrictions on access to abortion rather than making a direct challenge to Roe. Abortion rights supporters, he said, alienated those in the middle with their rigid opposition to any restrictions. With South Dakota's move to ban almost all abortions, progressive Democrats have an opportunity to "win the battle of reasonableness" by positioning the party as one that wants to reduce abortions while preserving a woman's right to have one, he said. A Third Way "message memo" suggests candidates promote policies to reduce unintended pregnancies, such as improving access to contraceptives, and back efforts to support pregnant women who want to give birth, including helping them remain in school. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
Cache (8192 bytes)
www.slate.com/id/2137775
Center for American Progress to debate the movement's future. One of the panelists reported that the latest annual tally of abortions in this country was 1295 million. article I brought to the meeting, indicated that our abortion rate exceeds that of every Western European nation. "Raise your hand if you think that number is too high," the conference moderator told the 50 people in the room. The two hand-raisers used to work for pro-choice groups but no longer do. This is the predicament facing the abortion-rights movement. It's led by three kinds of people: Those who see no problem, those who are afraid to speak up, and those who think it's futile. I'm betting that the denial, fear, and futility will give way. Although I'm pro-choice, I can't claim to be part of the movement. I haven't earned it, and as a professional critic, I can't make such a commitment. So I came, I made my case, and then I shut up and listened. It was like preaching to the choir, except that my preaching was Sunni, and the choir was Shiite. The silence about whether there are too many abortions was partly a nuance problem. Some attendees worried that saying yes would signal approval of restrictions rather than voluntary reductions. The hard-nosed political people in the room probably wanted to slap their foreheads at this hairsplitting. If you can't connect with these voters, you're in trouble. I'm not a woman, obviously, so I hesitate to say this--but is it really true, as some folks at this meeting argued, that abortion is fundamental to how today's women construct their lives? Planned Parenthood v Casey, that this generation of women has grown up with the implicit assumption that they can get an abortion legally if they need one. But I find it hard to believe that many women would call this part of how they construct their lives. You construct your life around things you expect, plan, or hope for. You might construct your life around your menstrual cycle or your boyfriend's maintenance of the condom supply. Isn't that the thing you don't construct your life around, because you don't want to think about it? And shouldn't a movement that aims to reflect the way women construct their lives deal with it in that context, as a fallback? My other problem at gatherings like this one is that I'm not a lefty. So, I listened with dismay as some speakers dismissed the abortion debate as a byproduct of racism and misogyny. Pro-lifers don't really care about morality, said one participant: They just "want white women to have more white babies." National Right to Life Committee have been lunching at Jack Abramoff's restaurant. If you accept that the rightness or wrongness of abortion depends to some extent on circumstance, or that as a general rule, the woman in question is more entitled to weigh the moral factors than Rick Santorum is, that makes you a bit of a relativist. But it was clear at Friday's meeting that many pro-choice activists go further. They argue that abortion is good because it's what a woman wants, and that the goodness or badness of abortion depends entirely on her choice. They insist all choices must be "respected" and "free from stigma." If everything has to be respected, what's the value of respect? If every exercise of liberty has to be free from stigma, how secure is liberty? I have no patience for diplomacy, or, as I prefer to call it, evasion. Right away, I got in trouble for calling abortion "bad." I like such words because they're blunt: They express a nearly universal gut reaction and make it clear which direction you'd like to go. The absolute relativists in the room found these words unacceptable, since they "stigmatize" and "pass judgment" on women and doctors. Liberals treat judgment the way conservatives treat sex: forbid it, except when you're doing it. But I was amazed at the group's reaction to the word "responsibility," which was the subject of the next panel. "Responsibility is to me a code word that has a lot of racial and class ... "I don't like the word 'responsibility,' " said another. "I don't want to talk about responsibility unless we're talking about the government taking responsibility," said a third. Hoping to bring the discussion back to earth, the moderator suggested, "Is there a way for us to reclaim the idea of responsibility?" The answer was a chorus of rejection, punctuated by a "No way!" Fortunately, repression, even when practiced by the left, doesn't work. Again and again, participants who decried stigma, judgment, and overt advocacy of fewer abortions went on to concede that some women find abortion "sad" or that pro-choice policies on birth control and sex education reduce the abortion rate. Advocates who work with post-abortion women were the most explicit. Another called for more stories of women who, while regretting their own abortions, wouldn't deprive others of the choice. Slowly, as though coming to terms with buried sexuality, the abortion-rights leadership is groping for a way to think and talk more frankly about the morality of ending unborn life. And in part, it's a matter of reflection by some who fought those fights but see how times have changed. Abortion no longer symbolizes freedom and women's rights as it did in the 1960s and 1970s, one old-timer observed; the movement must ask how abortion fits into its mission, not the other way around. Another veteran warned her colleagues that fetal life has become "the elephant on the kitchen table": If you can't acknowledge it, people will tune you out. In the struggle for self-correction, such candor and wisdom will help. READ MESSAGES Notes From The Fray Editor: The Fray is at its finest in response to Saletan's latest - replete with thoughtful replies, rooted in a wide range of perspectives, and challenging almost every aspect of Saletan's argument. I do not construct my life around my ability to have an abortion. I DO construct my life around whether or not I want to be a parent nine months from the moment. Of course I don't want to think about getting an abortion. That's time out of my schedule, money out of my pocket and probably a great deal of emotional anguish. But an abortion is a back up plan *in case* I am pregnant and the things I dearly want in life -- a husband, for one thing, a home, financial security, a fulfilling career I can come back to -- are not in place at that time. y life isn't constructed around my ability to obtain an abortion. It's constructed around my career, finding my future lover, spending time with my friends, doing my hobbies, planning my vacations, helping my family, and a big part of that planning depends on when I choose to create a family. Maybe he can attest to the over abundance of male pragmatism in the pro-life movement. It seems to me that their whittling away at the edges of abortion rights is a very pragmatic approach. Therein lies a key difference between the two movements as far as I'm concerned. But they're not women and are content to leave it up to women to protect the right. Not only is the pro-life movement deeply rooted in the male dominate hierarchies of religious institutions, but pro-life thinking men, generally speaking, believe they are fighting for justice and the life of innocents. The women in the pro-life movement aren't threatened by their male allies. The battle over abortion is nothing short of boys and girls vs. They don't have the numbers because their male counterparts are more than content to sit on the sidelines. I have a friend who had a late-term abortion when she discovered her fetus had Downs. I had zero problem with that until they named the baby and had a memorial service for it. Now, I never said anything to her and I remain committed to the idea that it was her right to make that choice and that never having faced that dilemma I wasn't in a position to disapprove. But if she considered it a human baby enough to name it and have a memorial service, it bugged me that she could then kill it because it wasn't perfect. So, I'm not welcome in the pro-choice crowd or the anti-choice crowd. I'm just representative of the majority of Americans who are told they have to choose sides based...