3/1     great video about some georgia college students doing a speed
        limit experiment:
        http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5366552067462745475&q=speed
        anyone know the funky song thats playing at the end?
        \_ In Georgia? I'm surprised they weren't shot.
        \_ This is really interesting, and I get their point, but their
           execution, while effective and dramatic, was pretty dickish.
           I hope they weren't pulling that during a busy commute time.
           --erikred
           \_ Why?  I like the whole "civil obedience" thing.  If following
              the law is dangerous and pointless, then...?  -John
              \_ Have you ever been stuck in traffic and discovered that the
                 reason for the traffic was a "phantom" stop (i.e., the result
                 of someone ahead of you slowing slightly, and then the person
                 behind them slowing more, and so on until you finally stop)?
                 Well, it's bad enough when the flow of traffic is disturbed
                 by an expression of Chaos Theory; it's more annoying when it's
                 the the result of some people actively seeking to slow down
                 traffic to make a point. --erikred
                 \_ Yes, it is a well-documented phaenomenon of traffic
                    dynamics.  That has nothing to do with stupid or in-
                    appropriate laws, and with pointing this out.  -John
                    \_ I was attempting to evoke a visceral response to being
                       stuck in traffic and then trying to get you to compare
                       that feeling with the feeling you would have if the
                       latter were instead the case. But hey, if neither of
                       these bother you, more power to you. How's the traffic
                       in the Andes? --erikred
                       \_ It would bother me tremendously, natch.  I hate being
                          stuck in traffic, but it's kind of a NIMBY thing.
                          What they're doing is sort of snotty college-brat
                          hoserish, you are right, but the point they make is
                          very valid.  As for traffic in the Andes, look at
                          ~john/Temp/IMG_14{23,42,53}.JPG  :-)  -John
                          \_ vo ist ze lederhosen? HEIL GERMAN JOHN!!!
                          \_ So we agree... to agree. :) Nice pix. That's the
                             right setting for 4/AWD. --erikred
                             \_ Thanks...it always warms my  heart with joy
                                when some banker twat in one of the cheap
                                Chinese SUV knock-offs they love down here
                                cuts me off, to just think about where I took
                                ours last weekend... -John
                 \_ I think people are going too fast.  I like the current
                    speed limits.  I hate people who tailgates me with their
                    big fat truck and headlights when I am already driving
                    at the speed limit.  I will purposely slow down to
                    annoy them when they do that.    - Mr 55
                    \_ Mr 55 Guy, I have the answer for you from the cop who
                       did the driving class I was in for a ticket in response
                       to some woman who was seeking praise from the cop for
                       doing 55 in front of fast people, "It is not your job
                       to regulate the flow of traffic, it is my job.  If
                       you're going slower than the vehicles behind you, get
                       out of the way, you're more dangerous than they are".
                       She then proceeded to repeat herself and heap praise
                       upon herself for her high moral standards which
                       elicited the same response in much harsher tones until
                       he eventually beat the concept into her tiny brain.
                       \_ So what was her ticket for?
                          \_ No idea.  He was extremely no nonsense and had
                             zero bullshit tolerance so we didn't play the
                             'go around the room and say what our tickets are
                             for' game.  He gave this one girl the boot from
                             class for coming in 20 minutes late on the
                             second night (still wearing her cheer leader
                             high school outfit) and sent her packing in tears
                             to go sign up for a re-take.
                       \_ why were you in traffic school for?  - Mr 55
                          \_ tagged for running a yellow light.  In 20 years
                             I've had 4 tickets including that one, another
                             was "unsafe right turn on red" and one for
                             speeding.  72 in 65.  The last was a Berkeley cop
                             for something that took him 15 minutes to figure
                             out what to put on the ticket but came down to
                             something like, "crossing a highway against
                             oncoming traffic", that traffic being his idled
                             patrol car on the side of the road with his lights
                             out at night.
                       \_ I am not trying to regulate traffic.  I am just
                          trying to drive at a safe speed.  why should I
                          be subjected to dangerous tailgating or constant
                          lane changes.  It's not like I am driving at 45.
                          I am driving 55.  I've never been stopped by police
                          for driving too slow.  - Mr 55
                          \_ If you're driving 55 in California, you're still
                             driving too slow. The limit is 65 here and it's
                             generally agreed that if you're driving 55,
                             you're impeding traffic, particularly if you're
                             in the left lane. By the way, in Germany, you
                             will be pulled over if you get caught being a
                             left lane bandit or if you tailgate. I think
                             that's the way it should be here.
                             \_ Wrong. The speed limit for big rigs on every
                                highway in California is 55 or less. You are
                                allowed to drive 55 legally in the right hand
                                lane. Change the law if you don't like it.
                          \_ There is a place for you on the highway that
                             is safe for your driving speed, won't get you
                             heavily tail gated, won't piss off or endanger
                             anyone, including yourself and requires no lane
                             changes at all: the right lane.  Know it, drive
                             it, love it.
                             \_ First of all, that's bullshit.  Years ago,
                                when I used to be a car-driver like you,
                                I used to go slightly over the speed limit
                                (which was 65) and stay in the right lane
                                if there were two lanes or the middle lane
                                if there were three and frequent exits.  I
                                was continually tailgated, and occasionally
                                brighted out even when the left lane was totally
                                empty.  Face it. Most of the people on the
                                road shouldn't be given a license to operate
                                a fucking bigwheels, much less the 6000 pound
                                monsters they all feel the need to drive now.
                                And whatever speed any of you drive, you still
                                poison my air, and I still have to pay for
                                your oil subsudies and oil wars.  I don't even
                                remember where I was going with this rant
                                now.  FUCK BIRDS!!!  Let 'em die in windmills.
                                \_ You know, I find it kind of reassuring
                                   that you're not on the freeways anymore.
                                   \_ With 30,000 car related deaths a year,
                                      I'm glad you feel so safe.  Moron.
                                      \_ Heh, I never said I "felt safe".
                                         I said it was "reassuring".  Work
                                         on your reading skills, young
                                         neurotic padawan.
                                         \_ Oh, yeah, it was the other guy
                                            who said "we're all safer".
                                            Whatever.  Consider my crazed,
                                            free-floating rage to be directed
                                            at both of you.
                                            \_ Well, once again your reading
                                               skills have failed you.  The
                                               fact that we're safer thanks
                                               to your absence isn't equivalent
                                               to "we're safe".  Keep trying,
                                               neurotic grasshopper.
                                               \_ Fuck you.
                                                  \_ LOL  I haven't had this
                                                     much fun on motd in a
                                                     long time.  Keep it up
                                                     Mr. Wannabe Sociopath!
                                                     \_ Blow it out your ass,
                                                        wanker.  FUck you.
                                                        \_ Y0u r3wl, dud3!!1!
                                      \_ Someone is off their meds this
                                         morning.
                                   \_ Heh, I was about to say something like
                                      that, too.  We're all safer.  Except the
                                      pedestrians he's going to hit with his
                                      bike at 30 mph because he doesn't walk
                                      his bike at cross walks as per the law.
                                      \_ Fuck you.
                                         \_ Back on the meds!  Down, boy! Down!
                                            \_ Just went on new medication this
                                               week.  So far I'm unimpressed.
                                               Fuck you.
                                               \_ Yeah, I'm not so impressed
                                                  with those meds either.
                                                  Maybe you should consider
                                                  going to a new doctor.
                    \_ And I'll support your right to do this. If you get some
                       friends to drive next to you and thereby block all
                       traffic, however, you're not just exercising your right,
                       you're blocking traffic, no matter how legally you're
                       doing it. --erikred
                       \- and dont do that in the "fast lane" if there is one.
                          \_ When I drive in the fast lane, I always make
                             sure that my car is faster then cars in the lane
                             to my right, but still, there will be these
                             people driving big trucks or other monster
                             vehicle tailgating me.  I mean if I get a good
                             chance, I will filter right and let them pass
                             but I don't feel I have an obligation to do that
                             in a hurry if I am already faster than cars in
                             the lane to my right.  I find these tailgaters
                             annoying, and I will slow down just to annoy
                             them back if they follow me too closely.  - Mr 55
                             \_ Yeah, see that puzzles me.  I'd think that,
                                if the guy behind you is engaging in stupid
                                of the guy behind you is engaging in stupid
                                dangerous behavior, the logical thing to do
                                would be to get out of his way and alleviate
                                the hazardous situation rather than trying
                                to get the 'last word' and exacerbate things.
                                That behavior would seem to contradict your
                                insistence that you drive slowly to be at a
                                "safer speed".   -mice
                                to get the 'last word' and exacerbate the
                                situation.  That behavior would seem to
                                things.  That behavior would seem to
                                contradict your insistence that you drive
                                slowly to be at a "safer speed".   -mice
                             \_ I usually move right to allow faster cars to
                                pass in the fast lane, but I'm with you-- I'd
                                rather slow down than give in to a tailgater.
                                \_ The proper thing to do is let the
                                   faster traffic pass. You could get a
                                   ticket if you don't.
                                   \- while i acknowledge there is obnoxious
                                      tailgating, you do have to pull up
                                      enough to convey you want to go faster.
                                      (which i usually do and then back off)
                                      and of course if there is a lot of
                                      traffic ahead of the car directly in
                                      front of you, you should back off.
                                   \_ Not if passing on the right is allowed,
                                      as it is on CA highways.
                                      \_ Do you know what "proper" means?
                                         \_ Sorry, wasn't clear: agreed with
                                            proper, disagreed with ticket.
                                      \_ When I retook my DMV exam recently
                                         this question was on it. If
                                         someone pulls up behind you and,
                                         say, flashes his lights then it
                                         is your job to get out of his
                                         way. It is not his responsibility
                                         to pass you on the right.
                                         \_ yea, the DMV booklet also says
                                            to maintain a certain distance
                                            while following.  I actually
                                            prefer people flash me instead
                                            of tailgating me, which is
                                            much more dangerous.
                                            \_ Two wrongs don't make a right.
                                               \_ Like I said if he flashes
                                                  me it's okay.  Sometimes
                                                  people do have emergencies.
                                                  But no, tailgating is not
                                                  acceptable because you
                                                  are endangering other
                                                  people's lives.  And yes,
                                                  two wrongs don't make a
                                                  right means you are not
                                                  supposed to tailgate even
                                                  if the old lady doesn't
                                                  move over.
                                                  \_ I'm not disputing that
                                                     tailgating is illegal
                                                     and dangerous. I am
                                                     pointing that that impeding
                                                     traffic in some silly
                                                     urge to be 'right' is
                                                     both unsafe and illegal.
                                                     \_ well, you said "if a
                                                        driver pulls up
                                                        behind you, it is your
                                                        job to get out of the
                                                        way".  This is not
                                                        true.  A prerequisite
                                                        for impeding traffic
                                                        is two or more vehicles
                                                        following you.  Blocking
                                                        one idiot trying to drive
                                                        faster than the
                                                        traffic flow doesn't
                                                        constitute impeding
                                                        traffic.  No police
                                                        will stop you for that.
                 \_ The point is they are adhereing to a law that should
                    ticket everyone not going that slowly anyway.
                 \_ We're not blocking traffic, we are
                    traffic! - Critical Mass
        \_ I would like to have seen the cops get involved.
           \_ And what could they do?  Ticket them for going the speed limit?
              I suppose there could be a ticket for disturbing the peace or
              or something like that.  Like willfully attempting to block
              traffic.
              \_ Obstructing traffic.  Misdemeanor in CA
                 \_ Would that stick if you were travelling exactly at the
                    maximum speed limit?  On what grounds?  As long as you
                    weren't blocking emergency vehicles...
                    \_ In CA, Obstructing Traffic requires a vehicle to be
                       stopped. Strangely enough, the proper charge might be
                       Reckless Driving. See:
                       http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vctoc.htm
        \_ 4 lane freeways are 55 there?  Yeesh.
        \_ I think they should invent new signs in some threatening color and
           put new "Zero Tolerance" speed limits on them, that are like the
           ones the cops actually enforce.  1mph over and you'll be ticketed
           (reliably).
           \_ In Scottsdale, they have automatic speed ticketing cameras/radar
              now.
              \- as is common in europe. will be interesting to see if they
                 survive giving tickets to cops and judges and pols.
                 \_ Except for in the UK (where they're insane), most Euro
                    cameras have tolerance limits, and are in areas where
                    traffic is dangerous and speeding is dangerous.  Except
                    in some places like NL where they measure over distance.
                    This is pointless and lame.  -John
                        \_ I always know when we hit a camera zone in Holland
                           when my relatives are driving me somewhere because
                           for no reason they suddenly slow down a lot, and
                           then a little later speed up ...
                 \_ Are you kidding?  They'll be 'taken care of'.
                    \_ I kind of doubt that. The red light cameras in SF
                       and the speed cameras in DC are unmolested.
                       \_ You misunderstand.  PP was refering to the practice
                          of 'ticket-fixing'.
                \_ In Taiwan, they have a device that will warn you whenever
                   you approach places where there are speed ticketing
                   cameras or radars.
                \_ Russia: get jailed for having an official crash into YOU. -oj
                   http://csua.org/u/f4a
                   \_ America: apologize when an official shoots YOU!
http://www.thedailyjournalonline.com/article.asp?ArticleId=224493&CategoryId=12395
        \_ They should learn to spell.