Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 41692
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2024/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/22   

2006/2/3-5 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:41692 Activity:moderate
2/3     http://tinyurl.com/a2gsf (nytimes.com)
        IAEA ready to vote to send Iran to Security Council, but U.S. lone
        holdout on new Egypt-introduced / UK-modified language which says
        Middle East should eventually be WMD-free (meaning Iran may be able
        to complain about "why does Israel get to have nukes").
        Western official:  "This resolution is about Iran"
        European official:  "It's five against one"
        Current text:  "a solution to the Iranian nuclear issue would
        contribute to the goal of a Middle East free of all WMDs, and their
        means of delivery."
        My prediction:  The U.S. will cave, and perhaps throw some bullshit
        language in there that everyone knows won't mean anything other than
        being a face-saving gesture.
        \_ Maybe... maybe not.  We've taken a hard line on Iran and I don't
           think we're going to trade away Israel's existence in exchange for
           sending Iran to the UNSC, a toothless organization which lacks will
           or even sufficient self interest to care.
           \_ The thing is, UK's language != "trade away Israel's existence".
              I predict the U.S. will realize that they're actually not giving
              much away using this language.
              Also, the Sec Council, as with all neutral and states which are
              traditionally opposed to the U.S., has its uses.  George H.W.
              Bush understood this, and was able to forge a truly international
              coalition (including Arab states) to kick Saddam out of Kuwait in
              Gulf War I, while saving enormous amounts of U.S. dollars and
              preserving the lives of our soldiers.
                \_ Yeah but he was a pussy
           \_ I probably should not respond to such a blatant troll, but how
              does agreeing to a nuclear free Middle East equate to agreeing
              to trade away Israel's existence?
              \_ It isn't a troll.  Let's see, tiny country of a few million
                 surrounded by hostile enemies numbering in the hundreds of
                 millions who have already launched several wars with the
                 intent of wiping them off the face of the map and "driving
                 them into the sea".  Several/most of those countries are
                 still officially in a state of war with Israel.  You think
                 something other than the threat of being nuked has kept
                 them at bay?  Either you're woefully ignorant or you're the
                 one trolling here.
                 \_ Well, there is the part where they keep losing...
                    \_ Israel only needs to lose once and it's over forever.
                       They barely made it the first time with heavy losses
                       and again later they only won due to sheer incompetence
                       on the part of the attackers.  Tell me again how a
                       nuke free Israel can survive when (not if) they get
                       attacked again?  Seriously, all of this is very public
                       \_ there's this thing called the United States.
                       knowledge.  The details are historic facts of these wars
                       are agreed upon by all sides and out sider observers.
                       Blowing up kids in discos and pizza parlors is what
                       the enemy does when a land invasion would result in
                       getting nuked.  It isn't due to the heart warming and
                       cheery good nature of their Arab neighbors that they
                       haven't been attacked since 73 which corresponds very
                       closely with the time Israel is assumed to have
                       acquired the nuke.  I'm sure it's just a coinkydink....
                       \_ there's this thing called the United States.
                          \_ So what?  It is sheer insanity for one country to
                             make its very existence dependant on the direct
                             military action of another country thousands of
                             miles away.  At best the little country becomes
                             a vassal/colony state, at worst they get crushed
                             and genocided anyway while their Lords debate over
                             sending American Boys(tm) to fight someone else's
                             war.  I can't believe I'm still bothering with
                             this.  Go read some very basic history of the
                             world.  I'm done being trolled.
                             \_ Israel has traditionally been a vassal colony
                                of more powerful nations throughout its
                                history. In fact, the period referred to
                                within the Bible when Israel was an independent
                                nation lasted for a relatively short period
                                of time (and obvious dissension caused the
                                early state to rift in two, resulting in
                                easy pickings for the neighboring mideast
                                countries). Anyone with a basic knowledge
                                of world history would've known that.
                                \_ "We did a stupid thing thousands of years
                                   ago, so let's repeat it today!"  What does
                                   all of what you're saying about history
                                   have anything to do with Israel today?  I
                                   would take it as a lesson to *learn* from
                                   the past, not attempt to mirror the horrors
                                   of it.  I don't see what point you're
                                   trying to make that regarding Israel today.
                                   You get an "A+" for Ancient History Of The
                                   Middle East if that makes you feel any
                                   better.  An "F" for being on topic.
2024/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/22   

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tinyurl.com/a2gsf -> www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/03/international/middleeast/03cnd-iran.html&OQ=_rQ3D2Q26orefQ3Dslogin&OP=462d03c8Q2FQ2BtLNQ2B!Q60,Q7BQ5DQ60Q6051Q2B1ccQ3AQ2Bc1Q2BciQ2BfQ265LQ5DQ26.5fQ60Q26.6Q2BZf!!6LL.Q7B5Q2Bci,Q26!-fQ5D.Q26PV5Z6
ELAINE SCIOLINO Published: February 3, 2006 VIENNA, Feb. The countries that sit on the decision-making council of the world's nuclear watchdog agency will meet again on Saturday. Several diplomats said that it was unlikely that the problem would derail passage of the resolution, which would report Iran's case to the United Nations Security Council for the first time and which enjoys the support of the United States, Russia, China, France, Britain and Germany. But many of them insisted that the United States would have to back down from its position and predicted that the resolution might not pass with as strong a majority as they had hoped. The problem arose when Egypt insisted that the draft resolution include a specific mention of support for the creation of a nuclear-weapons-free zone in the Middle East. Egypt and other Arab states routinely demand references to a "nuclear free zone" in the Middle East in Security Council documents, arguing that Israel which has never admitted that it has nuclear weapons and unlike Iran has never signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty should be part of a general security framework in the Middle East that bans such weapons. In the current debate, Egypt has argued that if a resolution is passed that makes the Security Council a player in considering Iran's nuclear program, it must include language about a nuclear-free Middle East. But the problem has exposed a split between the Americans who oppose the Egyptian demand and Russia, China and the Europeans who support it. Last night, Britain circulated a new informal draft that added a clause that recognized that "a solution to the Iranian nuclear issue would contribute to the goal of a Middle East free of all weapons of mass destruction, and their means of delivery." The language reflects the official position of the 25-member European Union. In a statement by European foreign ministers in Brussels last week that sharply criticized Iran for reopening its uranium enrichment plant in Natanz, for example, the reference to a nuclear-free Middle East was included. Condoleezza Rice, has taken the position that such a reference could be used by Iran as a propaganda weapon against Israel, four senior diplomats said, speaking on condition of anonymity under normal diplomatic constraints. "The Americans are worried that once it is there, it will stay there forever and allow the Iranians to hide behind it" one ambassador involved in the negotiations said. This evening, the Europeans were pressing the Americans to change their position, other ambassadors said. Another key ambassador called the Americans "dogmatists," predicting that in order to pass the resolution, "the Americans will have to give in." But one Western official predicted that the American position would prevail. "This resolution is about Iran," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity under normal diplomatic rules. He added: "One or two countries have raised the question about whether in some fashion we should address a weapons-free zone for the Middle East. Countries, including the United States, support the establishment of a weapons-free zone in the Middle East but we see this as quite a separate issue." It was impossible to judge how much of the rhetoric was ritualistic posturing in advance of a vote and whether the dispute would be resolved quickly. Gregory Schulte, the American ambassador to the International Atomic Energy Agency, told reporters that he expected strong support when a vote is taken. "We are convinced we have a solid majority for the resolution that reports Iran to the Security Council," he said. EA makes its full assessment of Iran's nuclear program in March. The current text is a compromise between the American push for immediate action against Iran by the Security Council and Russia's preference for a monthlong delay for more diplomacy. The resolution recalls Iran's "many failures and breaches of its obligations" under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and "the absence of confidence that Iran's nuclear program is exclusively for peaceful purposes." In one important concession, the draft resolution was changed to reflect the fact that actions taken by Iran to build international "confidence" that it is not pursuing a nuclear weapon are "voluntary and nonlegally binding." In a concession to countries that do not want the Iran case to set a precedent in the Security Council that could limit their own nuclear programs, the resolution was amended to state that Iran is "a special verification case." The non-aligned bloc is also demanding a reference to the nuclear-free zone in the resolution. In another development, Javad Vaidi, the head of Iran's nuclear delegation, told reporters today that if the resolution reported Iran to the Security Council, it would eliminate a Russian proposal under which uranium would be enriched for Iran's energy purposes at a site in Russia under sole Russian authority. "If this resolution is adopted, it will tie our hands," he said. Underscoring the fluid nature of the diplomacy, however, a Russian diplomat said that talks on the proposal were continuing. On Thursday, Iran informed the International Atomic Energy Agency in a letter that all "voluntary" nuclear cooperation with the agency would end if the agency board reported Iran's nuclear case to the Security Council. That would mean that the agency would no longer be allowed to do voluntary spot inspections and would lose access to key sites and installations.
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