Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 41672
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2025/04/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2006/2/2-4 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:41672 Activity:high
2/3     Do people really freak out when seeing bones or seeing a fish head
        when eating?
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/01/FDGMRGTIIG1.DTL
        \_ My sister won't eat meat if there's anything to remind her that the
           meat is from an animal.  But somehow the shape of a chicken breast
           muscle doesn't push that button.. People are weird.
           \_ I am guessing you are not Asian.
              \_ You'd be correct.
              \_ So I'm curious. Do you whities think that we Asians are
                 barbaric?              -asian
                 \_ I'm stunned that you would have to ask.  Of course we do,
                    what with your kancho video games and rice bomb cars and
                    those wacky samurai swords.  Are you gonna try and convince
                    me to eat my dog next?  I hope not, cuz that just ain't
                    happening mah brotha...
                    \_ Riceboys ain't yer brotha, white trash.  -- n***er
                    \_ Riceboy ain't yer brotha, white trash.  -- n***er
              \_ You'd be correct.  But this is beyond "not Asian".  It's a
                 sad dissociation that people want to ignore where food comes
                 from.
           \_ I think all kids should be taken hunting and/or fishing
              when they are young. It eliminates BS pussies like your
              sister and teaches respect for nature. I wanted to take my
              9 year old pussy nephew who doesn't eat meat for similar
              reasons duck hunting and his retard mom (similar to your
              sister) has brainwashed him so much that he won't go. The
              only meat he'll eat is pepperoni on pizza. That's just
              plain wrong and (IMO) unhealthy physically and mentally.
                - not OP
        \_ In Japan there is a kind of sashimi where they take a live fish, cut
           out all the flesh off one side of the fish except the head and the
           tail, leaving the whole head, tail, skeleton, and the other side of
           the body intact.  Then they cut the flesh into sashimi, and put it
           back on the fish body.  They they serve it to the table.  When you
           eat the sashimi, the fish is still not dead yet.  Its mouth and tail
           still moves a little.  I tried it once at a restaurant in the
           still move a little.  I tried it once at a restaurant in the
           Kawasaki area called Bikkuri Sushi.  Interestingly, "bikkuri" means
           "surprise".
              \_ I strongly agree.
              \_ I totally agree. If you are going to be a uncivilized
                 barbarian and eat meat, you should be comfortable killing
                 and eating it like a wild animal.
                 If, on the other hand, you want to be a decent civilized
                 human being, eschew meat altogether and be a vegetarian.
                 \_ You grow all your own food?  You only eat food that grows
                    natively in your region without the use of chemicals?  You
                    don't eat food grown else where and brought in by diesel
                    burning trucks and ships?  And why is it ok to eat plants
                    anyway?  Plants are alive, the same as you and your dog,
                    fluffy.
        \_ In Japan there is a kind of sashimi where they take a live fish,
           cut out all the flesh off one side of the fish except the head and
           the tail, leaving the whole head, tail, skeleton, and the other
           side of the body intact.  Then they cut the flesh into sashimi,
           and put it back on the fish body.  They they serve it to the table.
           When you eat the sashimi, the fish is still not dead yet. Its
           mouth and tail still move a little.  I tried it once at a
           restaurant in the Kawasaki area called Bikkuri Sushi.
           Interestingly, "bikkuri" means "surprise".
           \_ A faimly took me out to a restaurant in Tokushima and served me
              this. It was called "ikizukure"(sp?) ("living, twitching")
              sashimi, there. -- ulysses
              \_ Thanks for the name.  I forgot.  It's either ikizukuri or
                 ikezukuri. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikizukuri Check out
                 the picutre link at the bottom.  When I had it, it's even
                 worse.  The chef put the meat right on the body, and I
                 more worse.  The chef put the meat right on the body, and I
                 had to pick the meat off the skeleton.  -- PP
                 \_ There's a sushi place in Bel Air, CA that serves this.
                    \_ Any in the Bay Area?
                 \_ I find that both disgusting and cool.
                    Photos of the process and result:
                    http://www.oak.dti.ne.jp/~koione/english-ikizukuri.html
                    \_ This just seems gratuitously cruel.
                 the picutre link at the bottom.  When I had it, it's even more
                 worse.  The chef put the meat right on the body, and I had to
                 pick the meat off the skeleton.  -- PP
                       \_ It looks like he bonked it on the head first...
           \_ if you want to guarantee freshness, you have proof.
           \_ Do they do anything with the other half of the fish, or does
              that just go to waste?
              \_ After finishing the sashimi, the customer has the option to
                 have the other half cooked into something else.  I had soup
                 cooked from it.  -- PP
        \_ There's this scene in Oldboy where the guy eats a whole live
           octopus, which wriggles all the way down.  This definitely rules.
        \_ I'm fine with fish & meat and the way it's caught and butchered,
           but I really don't need to see it on my plate, staring at me. -John
2025/04/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
4/3     

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www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/01/FDGMRGTIIG1.DTL
entertainment links There really is no middle ground," says Marsha McBride, chef-owner of Berkeley's Cafe Rouge. "There are people who are bone eaters, and people who aren't." These days, the bone eaters are getting a little cranky. Heaps of petrale fillets, boneless pork cutlets and boneless rib-eye steaks fill our food shops, giving the impression of abundant choice. But where are the lamb necks and bone-in lamb shoulders, the oxtails, breast of veal and fresh pork hocks? Where are the whole, head-on fish, looking like they did when they came out of the water? "As a food stylist, I've done so many boneless, skinless chicken breasts and pork tenderloin recipes that I go insane," says Jennifer McLagan, a Canadian writer whose new book "Bones: Recipes, History, & Lore" (William Morrow) celebrates the often-overlooked -- and increasingly unavailable -- bony cuts like lamb ribs, marrow bones and chicken feet. "I think people have forgotten how good cooking on the bone is." Accomplished cooks have long known that food tastes better when cooked on the bone, although they may not have understood why. And in many cultures, nibbling and gnawing on bony parts, from fish heads to duck feet, is undertaken with pleasure. Why Americans prefer a boneless kitchen -- Fourth of July spareribs aside -- is debatable, but one consequence isn't: We are missing out on some fabulous food. "When you're eating on the bone, it makes the experience last a little longer," says Grace Young, a Manhattan cookbook author who was raised in a Chinese home in San Francisco. "You can suck a little more flavor from the bones after you eat the meat." Chinese children are taught from an early age how to eat whole fish deftly, paying attention to the bones but not fearing them. Young says her parents, like other Chinese parents, taught her to use a spoonful of rice as a chaser if she happened to swallow a fish bone. In her childhood home, chicken was always cooked whole, hacked and eaten on the bone, feet included. "There's a complete distaste in the Western mind for even seeing that chicken foot," Young says. Squeamishness surely explains some of the disdain many Americans have for bony parts. Generations removed from the farm and the stark realities of farm life, many diners don't want their dinner to look remotely like the animal it came from. In virtually every other part of the world, carcasses hang from their hind feet in markets and shoppers are accustomed to the sight. They view the carcass as an indicator of freshness, not an object of disgust. That's another reason Chinese cooks prefer to buy whole fish, says Young. From the look of the gills and the eyes, they can evaluate freshness. But whole fish are a hard sell in Bay Area restaurants, chefs say. Chris Rossi, chef-owner of Oakland's Citron, says he had a similar experience when he cooked at the neighboring A Cote. "We tried whole fish but (customers) would freak out when they'd see the head," he says. A jellied pig's feet terrine, made with boneless meat, sells briskly at Bistro Jeanty, the Yountville restaurant, but chef Philippe Jeanty says he could never sell the bone-in braised pig's feet that are a beloved specialty of his native Champagne. "People don't want to have to work to get their food," he says. Diners rave about the pig's feet at Quince in San Francisco, but they've had a total makeover. Chef Michael Tusk bones them raw, then stuffs, poaches, slices, breads and fries them. The crispy dish looks nothing like the appendages the meat came from. At Acme Chop House in San Francisco, chef Thom Fox prepares oxtails, but they are braised, boned and fashioned into a sauce for gnocchi. Christine Mullen, chef at Cav Wine Bar in San Francisco, takes the same approach, using the rich, gelatinous oxtail meat for a pasta sauce after discarding the bones. Even Rossi, an enthusiastic advocate for cooking on the bone, sometimes hides the evidence. He cooks chicken breasts with the rib cage attached but removes the ribs before serving. "As a rule, people don't like to see anything on their plate when they're finished," he says. But when customers tell him his chicken breast is particularly moist, as many do, he knows the reason why. Bones themselves don't contribute much flavor, says Harold McGee of Palo Alto, author of "On Food and Cooking" (Scribner), a food-science bible for many chefs. But they do prevent juices from escaping from what would otherwise be a cut surface. Bones also act as an insulator, slowing the transfer of heat, which is why meat near the bone is always more rare and moist than meat near the surface. Anyone who has ever made a stock with veal bones has witnessed one of bones' most valuable contributions to cooking. Once chilled, the stock will be as stiff as a bowl of Jell-O. That's because bones and the cartilage that surrounds them are high in collagen, a protein that dissolves into gelatin when heated. A sauce made with reduced veal stock will have a viscous consistency, thanks to the bones. Similarly, a braise made with lamb shanks will have more body than the same dish made with boneless lamb. The younger the animal, the more collagen in the bones and cartilage, which explains why most chefs prefer veal bones over beef bones for stock. With so much goodness to offer, including the sheer atavistic pleasure of gnawing on them, it's unfortunate that bones are so often associated with lowbrow dining. Cuts like pork hocks and lamb necks, and bone-in fish like sardines, are associated with poverty because they're cheap, says McLagan. As people rise economically, they flaunt their status by eating filet mignon, viewed as superior because it costs more. As if their low stature didn't doom them already, bone-in cuts like necks and chicken wings demand time and effort to cook, a serious drawback in our 30-minute-menu culture. In times past, in-store butchers purchased whole carcasses of beef, lamb and pork and broke them down on site. If you wanted fresh marrow bones, butchers would have them unless another customer got there first. Today, markets buy boxed meat -- already broken-down into the so-called subprimal cuts such as loins, ribs and round -- and skilled butchers who can dismantle a whole carcass have all but disappeared. "Butchers (today) wouldn't know how to break the beef," says Peter Flannery, who has owned the carriage-trade Bryan's Meats in San Francisco since 1963. Although the past may look rosy in retrospect, Flannery says boxed meat was a breakthrough for the industry. "In the old days, you bought all the carcass, but you had to move everything evenly," says the merchant. "You had 90 percent of the people wanting 10 percent of the animal." With boxed meat, retail meat managers could buy just what they needed. Today, the best way to locate the unpopular odd parts is to find a butcher who buys whole carcasses. Bryan's still breaks down whole lamb carcasses and has a backlog of orders from Middle Eastern cooks for the flavorful necks. Latino and Chinese markets often purchase whole pigs and are a good source for pig's tails, feet, head, bone-in shoulder and the like. Niman Ranch, with its own wholesale butcher shop, is another source for obscure bony parts like lamb riblets and marrow bones. Some meat counters can obtain certain cuts with enough notice, but in general, the best tasting cuts of meat require a hunting expedition. "I think that in North America, the meat we buy is too cheap, so we don't value it enough," says McLagan. If meat cost more, she argues, "We might think about using the veal breast and lamb shanks and bits that we tend to disregard because we associate them with something cheap." They don't buy pig's feet because they're cheap, but because they're delicious. You may never find them in white-tablecloth restaurants, but as serious eaters know, sometimes the best and boniest food is in the back room, with the kitchen staff. Years ago, Judy Rodgers of Zuni Cafe put a grilled duck carcass on the menu, a nod to Pepette Arbulo, her mentor in southwest France. In Arbulo's restaurant, the duck legs were made into confit, the duck breasts were sauteed, and the carcasse...
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikizukuri
sashimi, thus the eater is able to enjoy the freshly prepared flesh of the fish/crustacean off the live, writhing animal. Usually the individual ordering ikizukuri picks the unfortunate victim from a Japanese restaurant's saltwater tank abundant with marine life. This process of traditional Japanese cuisine is controversial, with many people deeming it barbarian abuse to a live animal and what is known in Japan as (inhumanity) and na (savage behaviour). Still, others have tasted the freshly prepared fish that melts in the mouth and cannot dissent to such palatable flavour. Often, the fish is still alive or somewhat alive at the end of dinner.
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www.oak.dti.ne.jp/~koione/english-ikizukuri.html
We are showing pictures of carp cooking procedures on this page. Please look at the pictures from the upper left to the right. We are sorry that we donft explain the procedure here for you.