1/10 http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/10/D8F1LRCO5.html
"Migrants, regardless of their migratory status, should not be treated
like criminals"
So if people break immigration laws, they're not criminals?
\_ If the person writing that quote doesn't believe that they're just
laws then, no, to them they are not criminals and shouldn't be
treated as such.
\_ Not all violations of the law are subject to criminal penalties.
If you break the building code by putting in a deck w/o a permit
are you a criminal?
One can imagine a system where an immigrant is subject to a purely
civil deportation system.
\_ I see. So you're parsing the word "criminal" to mean the
criminal part of the penal code, vs. the civil part. Okay.
Yeah. What's the case of illegal immigration right now? Is
that a civil violation or a criminal one. Shut yer pie hole
\_ I agree that many violations of the immigration code
are criminal, but not every violation is criminal.
Some, such as overstaying a NAFTA guest worker visa
may be treated as a civil offense, not even subject
to deportation.
Furthermore, my point is related to the speaker's
idea of what the law ought to be, not what it is.
The person who made that statement may feel that
it is never permissible to use criminal law to
punish immigration violations. There is nothing
inherently invalid with that idea, regardless of
whether it reflects currently law.
\_ How would you apply your logic to the sentence "Child
molesters should not be treated like criminals"?
\_ It depends on what you accept as the basis
for criminal punishment. One theory holds
that criminal punishment is appropriate
only in cases where the victim is one or
more actual individuals (as opposed to
society in general). If we accept this as
the basis for criminal punishment, then
we find that while child molest should
be punished by criminal law, immigration
violation should not.
only in cases where the victim is a person
(as opposed to society in general).
If one accepts this view as the basis for
criminal punishment, then we find that
while child molest should be punished by
criminal law, immigration violation should
not.
[ I am not saying this view is correct, I
am suggesting that it can be logically
self consistent. ]
\_ This sounds like a hopelessly out of context (or out of reason)
soundbite. A much more well-reasoned statement might have been,
"Migrants, regardless of their migratory status, should not be
be treated like violent repeat offenders, drug dealers, or
terrorists, unless they're guilty of those crimes, too."
\_ You're reading your own bias into the quote. The Latin countries
are asking for a guest worker program. Guest worker programs
makes migrant work legal. By their proposed solution you see
the main issue is the illegal status of migrant workers (hence
"criminal"), and not the intensity of their treatment given
they're illegal (hence not "violent criminal" or some such
variant).
\_ On a related note, I don't yet see the problem with a
migrant worker system. To me, the biggest problem with
illegal immigration is that there's no way to control it.
Illegal immigrant violent criminals are a particular pain
in the rear. It seems reasonable to work on both
tighter controls and a migrant worker system. |
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